Home schooling

[Ben Kenobi]

Previously, I thought this idleness was the price you pay for efficiency. You can have a single teacher teach 20 or 30 kids -- very efficient. However, now I'm starting to ask whether this is the wrong way to look at it. In a class of 20 or 30, half of the students are idle-minded half of the time. We could look at it narrowly and say that the teacher's time is worth more than the pupil's time, but that discounts the potential value of the pupil's time in the future.

Not necessarily in the future. What jobs can a 16 year old do?

Consider this. What would it mean to be able to get kids finished their high school education by 14 say, and have university done by 18? What would the overall value be to businesses to have kids trained at a younger age? To me, it seems much of school, and university also is enforced idleness, and when student time needs to be taken into consideration courses change dramatically.

I can get 3 credits of higher level history done by going to one class from 8-5 for a week. Now extend that to a degree of 120 credits. I would need to go to class for 40 weeks to finish with a degree. That's all.

I could start in September, and be finished a 4 year degree by July!

[Ben Kenobi]

Home schooling seems to be as bad an idea as "home doctoring".

Sure, a few people will have doctors as parents, but the majority will be drinking stump water to cure what ails them. That's why standards have to be set, even if a small proportion of the population would be better off homeschooled.

Gee, need I quote Plato?

There are many philosophies of education. The system that we have now is a product of a crazy German who wanted to instil national values in all the children. I'm surprised to hear that someone who is so acquainted with the Greeks would argue against home schooling.

One can argue whether it would work for all children, but then one can say that about any form of education. It's only been just in the last while that we have even believed that everyone ought to be educated. Why should we assume that one size fits all?

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Japher
I disagree with this, else sports wouldn't be so big.

I don't know if you realize this, but it is healthy to work out. Up until the early 20s, people typically have a lot of energy. Even if school did not organize the sports, kids would still play them. Sports are not some extention to make school more socializing. It's just the easiest way to organize things.

[mactbone]

I didn't have the best experiences in public school but I know it helped me.

Kids need time away from adults, they need to socialize with peers and learn how people interact. It also helps you understand things that you won't read or learn in a structured environment. Not to mention the time you spend with the diverse individuals that make up the faculty. It's not just the teachers that I remember, but the janitor from elementary and other adults who tried to help all the kids become competent adults.

For those that didn't "get enough" out of school - why were you bored? I read all the time during breaks, got homework done so I could do more after school, and looked ahead to see what we would miss because there was never enough time in school. I would hope that school kindles the desire to learn and focuses that desire on worthy subjects. I'll admit that's not always the case but it definitely seems like it provides a great base to jump off from. It seems like most home schooling can give more intense and deep knowledge on particular subjects but that it doesn't always impart the breadth that a public school does.

Sorry, just a little tired of people complaining about public schools. Most of the complaints just seem like a general whining about the state of education in the US (or I guess whatever country you're from). If you want better education you have to pay for it whether it's sending your kid to private school or paying more taxes.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Apocalypse

I don't know if you realize this, but it is healthy to work out. Up until the early 20s, people typically have a lot of energy. Even if school did not organize the sports, kids would still play them. Sports are not some extention to make school more socializing. It's just the easiest way to organize things.

if I don't do cardio ~2 times a week I get sick, and possibly would have a heart attack or something within 6 months

if I don't do ~4 times a week... I get fat, slow, and don't feel good

JM

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Apocalypse

What's so funny?

[Donegeal]

Homm skoolin werked fur mee!!!

[Eli]

VetLegion:

You were one of the bullys laughing at the handpicked good students and now you complain... why exactly?

Maybe if you were homeschooled your reading comprehension would've been better.

Urban Ranger:

This clearly demostrates the difference between an optimist and a pessimist.

It's seeing another side of the coin. The positive sides of the school system are not unique to it and can be easily recreated in a homeschooling environment. But the drawbacks of schools are avoided in such an environment and this is why homeschooling is a great solution if you want (to use Rufus' words) to have your kids "engage the world even more fully than public schooling will allow".

mactbone:

For those that didn't "get enough" out of school - why were you bored? I read all the time during breaks, got homework done so I could do more after school, and looked ahead to see what we would miss because there was never enough time in school.

You're actually making the argument for homeschooling.
The level of your school was lower than your level, otherwise you would'nt have been able to do homework during breaks and look at the material that will not be taught. So school was not enough for you and you chose to self-homeschool yourself.

I can definetely relate to that because I did that too. 90% of what I know came not from listening to teachers but from reading books and talking to other smart people.
And looking back at that period, I can say that even that was done in a horribly roundabout, inefficient way. It would've been much better if I had an adult who could guide me and help me systematize my learning.

I would hope that school kindles the desire to learn and focuses that desire on worthy subjects. I'll admit that's not always the case but it definitely seems like it provides a great base to jump off from. It seems like most home schooling can give more intense and deep knowledge on particular subjects but that it doesn't always impart the breadth that a public school does.

But it doesnt. The combination of intense social pressure and of the low level of the curriculum is crushing. You found your way around it, I did too, but many others didnt and homeschooling could've been a great solution for them.

[Bosh]

I would have gotten a VASTLY better education if my mother had homeschooled me. I couldn't read until 2nd grade (didn't learn a thing from Whole Language personally and that's all my school taught) when my mom took the time to tutor me in Phonics night after night until I finally got it. By 3rd grade I was way way ahead of my class average in reading instead of behind it. Same thing happened to my writing. My written grammar was **** and I only got by since most of the kids in my class didn't speak English all that well (was in Bolivia) and I could coast. My mom had to go through my every since writing assignment I handed in until I got the concepts. There's no way in HELL I would've been able to get into a half-way decent college if it weren't for my mom.

Most of my high school was a complete waste of time. In a lot of classes I could (and did) learn more about the subject by reading a good book on the subject over the weekend. The only exception were my Junior and Senior English classes, which helped me get a good analytical writing style together. Also public school did absolutely nothing to stop me from becomming a "creepy social reject" which I definately was until college cured me...

[Bosh]

Of course then the only home school kid I've ever met was a very creepy fundy who only EVER wore black Nike shirts, black Nike pants and black Nike shoes...

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Eli
It's seeing another side of the coin. The positive sides of the school system are not unique to it and can be easily recreated in a homeschooling environment. But the drawbacks of schools are avoided in such an environment and this is why homeschooling is a great solution if you want (to use Rufus' words) to have your kids "engage the world even more fully than public schooling will allow".

I am not sure if you can "recreate" such an environment at home. It is a big place. There is a wide spectrum of people. There are strangers. There are kids of your age. There are older kids. There are adults. Etc, etc.

I strongly doubt that anybody can set up such a rich and varying environment at home.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Gee, need I quote Plato?

There are many philosophies of education. The system that we have now is a product of a crazy German who wanted to instil national values in all the children. I'm surprised to hear that someone who is so acquainted with the Greeks would argue against home schooling.

One can argue whether it would work for all children, but then one can say that about any form of education. It's only been just in the last while that we have even believed that everyone ought to be educated. Why should we assume that one size fits all?

If you want to quote Plato, you would have to end up quoting his ideas about how expertise is to be preferred to uninformed people doing their own thing. Read The Laws if you want an honest opinion on Plato's attitude towards home schooling.

[Az]

The fact that people consider homeschooling a valid alternative is a sign of the failure of our current socio-political system, not our educational system ( we have plenty of other signs for the latter)

People think that a part of the system doesn't work, don't organize themselves to change it's educational quality, but instead run from a "sinking ship", by grabbing their kids.

[Agathon]

There are plenty of problems with current primary and secondary education systems.

For example: far too much emphasis is placed on math and science, to a level which will be of no practical use to most students. Thinking back to my 7th form calculus class, I can't think of more than 3 or 4 people who actually went on to use calculus in their careers. Teaching practical logic instead of most mathematics would benefit more students.

The teaching of English is woeful. Most students graduate high school without being able to spell correctly or knowing the basics of English grammar (I am one of these people, although I can spell quite well -- I was never taught formal English grammar. I know Classical Greek grammar a lot better than I know English grammar). For most of my highschooling the books we were issued were part of a social engineering policy (don't drink, don't take drugs, don't ****, obey your parents, etc.).

The teaching of history is a politicized joke. For most students at my school it was not compulsory, and there was no general curriculum that instructed students on the basics of how we got to where we are. I include in this religious education. Most students graduate high school without understanding the basic tenets of the world's major religions. That is an unforgiveable oversight.

Political education is comical. Mine consisted of ignorant teachers explaining how we had democracy and everyone was free, and many other countries did not. It wasn't designed to produce active citizens of a democratic polity, but to produce docile livestock who wouldn't ask hard questions. A friend of mine who went to Teachers' College confirmed that this was the stated aim of the current curriculum. The same goes for so called "Social Studies" which gifted students no understanding of how actual societies work.

I was so bored during my high school years that I did virtually no work. I spent most days mentally undressing attractive female classmates.

The proper response to this is to reform the curriculum, not to throw it out in favour of allowing people to teach their own kids. Most adults are simply incompetent in this regard. Teaching is a profession for a reason.

Things are somewhat better academically at private schools. The only problem is that the curriculum at those places is designed to inculcate the students with a belief in their innate superiority and their right to tell the rest of us what to do.

[Agathon]

And while I am at it, why is it that every single damn book we read that had actual teenagers ****ing, resulted in someone dying? Sometimes this was causally related to the teen sex, usually it was implied that it was connected in some mysterious and nebulous manner that was nevertheless inevitable.

I can see the point of this: "If you ****, bad **** will happen!!" What sort of message is that for children? They know it isn't true, and it just incites them to disobey.