Home schooling

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


Maybe I am just cynical, but I think it is the connections of the parents that get them into exclusive universities more than anything else.

For example: Mr George W Bush, the President of the United States.

Yep, you are cynical. My grandparents were working-class immigrants; my father was a floor surervisor in a factory. Believe me, connections did not help me get into school, nor did it help the majority of my friends (though my girlfriend throughout college was a "legacy" - the daughter of an alum). I went to school with a number of well-connected kids, but they were far, far outnumbered by ordinary kids who had worked their asses off to get there.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by mrmitchell

Which is a worthless statement. The best public schools produce extraordinary kids, as well.

No, that's precisely the value of the statement. My point was that home schooling produces the same range of achievement as traditional public education -- which is not the stereotype of home schooling.

[Urban Ranger]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly
Yep, you are cynical. My grandparents were working-class immigrants; my father was a floor surervisor in a factory. Believe me, connections did not help me get into school, nor did it help the majority of my friends (though my girlfriend throughout college was a "legacy" - the daughter of an alum). I went to school with a number of well-connected kids, but they were far, far outnumbered by ordinary kids who had worked their asses off to get there.

Well, me neither, but from what I read having the right connections get you into the right places. You know, the whole "old boys network" business. Even being an alum of some prestigious school helps a lot.

Several years ago I got a job offer because the managing director happened to be an alum -- of my old high school.

Maybe I am just looking at exceptions here, but this network thing is very powerful, at least at times.

[Rufus T. Firefly]

Originally posted by Urban Ranger


Well, me neither, but from what I read having the right connections get you into the right places. You know, the whole "old boys network" business. Even being an alum of some prestigious school helps a lot.

Several years ago I got a job offer because the managing director happened to be an alum -- of my old high school.

Maybe I am just looking at exceptions here, but this network thing is very powerful, at least at times.

Of course, people who are only distinguished by being born to privilege -- Bush, Kerry, pretty much all the Kennedy kids -- do end up with perks that ordinary people of the same level of intellect or accomplishment don't have access to. But I'd suggest that for every Bush there's a Clinton (poor white trash made good); for every Kerry, there's a Gore (a child of privilege who actually achieves instead of coasting through life). Ours is still a country where, if you look at any elite group -- the US Senate, Fortune 500 CEOs, etc. -- you will find a mix of privilege and merit. I'd be nice if it were all merit but, having lived back to back in two 3rd-world countries where connections are everything, I'll take whatever merit I can get.

[Seeker]

ah high school....a blur of mushrooms and acid for some...a 'learning experience' or whatever for others...

[Sikander]

My sister in law is torn about what to do about her daughter's schooling. They live in a more racially balanced part of Denver than average, which in Denver's case means that it's a pretty mellow slum. Less violent than a lot of places in the country, but the vast majority of the students are from cultures which don't value education as much as my sister in law would like (to put it mildly). As ex-hippies they want to "keep it real", but as parents they can't stand to see their only child growing up as an uneducated thug.

[Japher]

Sikander: private school?

I have known several home schooled kids who were surprisingly smart and social. I know these kids because one of my friends use to tutor kids who were being home schooled. One kid, in particular, stood out. His mom went blind when he was about to start HS and because she was a pot head, he was one too. HS wouldn't work for him because he got teased a lot. My friend tutored him through HS, and we played D&D with him, and talked with him about drugs,etc... He eventually got a 1500 on his SATs and enrolled in a community college with the hopes of becoming an engineer.

Haven't seen him since. Still, from where he was to where he got to was all because of home school. High School kids can be mean, especially to poorer kids or to kids who have fallen on hard times.

[Wycoff]

Originally posted by Japher
He eventually got a 1500 on his SATs and enrolled in a community college with the hopes of becoming an engineer.

He got a 1500 and went to Community College? Why in the world did he do that? With scores like that, he probably could have entered at least decent engineering school like Virginia Tech, maybe even one of the better ones like R.I.T. or even M.I.T..

[snoopy369]

Presumably because he needed to work to support his mother, and/or didn't want to leave his mother to go to school.

[Apocalypse]

Originally posted by Wycoff
decent engineering school like Virginia Tech

[Japher]

Presumably because he needed to work to support his mother, and/or didn't want to leave his mother to go to school.

Part of it. It was a complicated matter having to do with his whole financial situation at the time.

[hexagonian]

Well I have seen a variety of extremes while working as a lay youth leader at my church...so in my mind, it boils down to how the parents approach it.

Generally, the home schooled kids were smarter, and those who went on to public school (home-schooled during grade/middle school and then go public at the high school level) usually were in the the top of their classes. In fact, this is the rule rather than the exception, when I see them in relation to the rest of the kids at our church who went straight public schooling.

One kid at our church, who is a sophmore high school student agewise, is taking college courses, in addition to his homeschooling. Other home-schooled kids at our church were music prodigies.

Also, (and this is without fail) the homeschooled kids were generally more respectful of adult leaders in a youthgroup setting, and were generally more polite overall...

However... (and there is always a however)

From a social angle, the kids generally were about a year or two behind their peers at the grade/middle school level. This was not too drastic at that point in time either. It did become a problem once they reached high school. The kids who went to a public high school after being home-schooled usually were able to adjust socially with their peers. The ones who did not never seemed to fit in with their peers at that stage of their life.

The kid I mentioned above has no interaction with his peer group at our church - but I get the impression that he really does not care either, which may be in part because his parents give the impression that they limit him in this area - they choose not to allow him to come to youth social events. It could also be that this kid never was able to adjust socially at an earlier age, and so he became an outsider by choice.

But is this a bad thing??? Go back to what I said earlier - these kids had no problem dealing with adults. And ultimately, once they move onto college, they basically are moving into an adult world - where people are generally not as personally mean to their peers.

But it is a little sad too - the kid is missing out on a part of his life that he can never go back to. He will be an adult for 60-plus years. He will only be a kid for 15 years. Why the rush to grow up...

On the flipside, this social dynamic of 'outsider' shows up in a public school setting all the time. The fat, smart kid with thick glasses who is constantly bullied by his peers...and often does not have any sort of escape from that torment because he is locked into living in that social setting every day.

I had another parent who felt that her high-schooled aged daughter was 'beyond' the need for socal interaction with her peers. I really felt sorry for all of the kids in that woman's family (who were homeschooled through high school) because they really had the appearance of social cripples in relation to their peers.

My thoughts are that these kids are prime candidates for some social struggles once they get out from under the roof of their parents. The world may be a cold hard place for them.

What does appear to be happening in the homeschool community is the idea of co-ops. A group of parents who band together to divvy up the teaching responsibilities and provide socialization. This is a good thing. And most homeschoolers (at least in my area) are structured by requirements consistent with state testing standards.

[Ben Kenobi]

And it is also the place where the brighter kids start the not so long process of crumbling under the social pressure of the dumb, ignorant majority.

Most 20 years olds can, when being laughed at for reading books or being interested in anything beyond TV and sports, laugh back and hold their position, knowing that they are doing the right thing. Most 10 years old cant and wont.

Here here. Product of a public school education myself.

The socialization problem is an important one but it can be easily solved, whether by learning in groups with other homeschoolers, encouraging "after school" activities, etc. So attacks on homeschooling on these grounds do not invalidate the concept, but faulty implementations of it.

Exactly. But that reveals one of the primary truths about the public school system. The fact that socialisation is cited against alternatives so frequently tells me that school is primarily about socialisation and not education.

Now, I don't know about you, but when I work I work. I don't go to work to socialise or to improve my social life. Why should school be different? Shouldn't school be about the quality of education and not whether the kids are properly socialised? I can get social activities outside of school, but I can't get an education if I'm enrolled in public school.

[Apocalypse]

Socialization skills are important in that those who don't social very much are generally not too good at presenting ideas to others.

Socialization still isn't more important than academics overall, it's just that academics aren't as useful. Still, school isn't really about socialization more than academics. That's just what people who spent too much time thinking about why they don't have any friends think.

[Japher]

Still, school isn't really about socialization more than academics.

I disagree with this, else sports wouldn't be so big.