Chavez: man of the masses, protector of the weak, racist

[Winston]

Sensible is always a good mode for the KH.

[KrazyHorse]

If he was in charge of a real country then he might be dangerous. Luckily, he's only got Venezuela.

If the opposition there had any sense then Chavez would wield far less power than he does. Unfortunately they've set themselves up to look like traitorous American lapdogs, first by the attempted coup, then by persistent strikes, then by boycotting the election.

[Winston]

His timing also sucks. He's 20 years too late to benefit politically from the Eastern Bloc crackpot loony hegemony.

[techumseh]

How many Bolivarians can dance on the head of a pin?

[Sava]

j00

(is that a number)

(meh not that funny)

(I was going to edit this because someone will probably accuse me of being antisemitic)

(nah, I'll leave it)

(i'm going to bed)

[Last Conformist]

If Chavez is an antisemite, so what?

Anyway, the quote is suggestive of a deathwish.

[Sava]

Originally posted by Last Conformist
If Chavez is an antisemite, so what?

oh I don't really care if he is or not...

it's just that if he isn't, I don't want to see the right wingers that are smearing him, get away with spreading this bull****

and this is clearly something that is either a misunderstanding, or it's something that is deliberately being taken out of context and being put out there by people who have ideological reasons for doing so...

and that bothers me

I mean, sure, Chavez is a loon...

and if you disagree with his politics... FINE...

but don't go around spreading bull**** and saying stuff like, "he's a dictator" and he's the same as Stalin and crap like that... BECAUSE HE'S NOT!!! Only complete ****ing retards say **** like that.

that kind of **** pisses me off

it's not that I love Chavez's politics or I support him... it's that I hate stupid people...

that's all...

and if you guys notice, at first, I thought this was true...

Then I did some searching and found the transcript and the translation and found out this was taken out of context.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by GePap


Who ordered Jesus crucified? The authorities in Palestine, who were? THE ROMANS.

It was a little more complicated then that and you know it.

[Agathon]

The persecution maniacs strike again...

"ZOMG... someone said something that sounds a bit like something nasty that other people say about us.... it just sounds sort of like it... so it must be the same!!!!"

Chavez should tell them to piss off. Looks to me as if he's just talking about the sort of people who oppress the poor (i.e. the same sort of folk as Jesus killers and Bolivar killers). Kind of like that right wing radio host who got vilified because his interlocutors were too stupid to understand what a hypothetical was.

But of course the professional persecution maniacs have to make a mountain out of a molehill, or they wouldn't have a job.

And if NYE believes it, that's a definite sign that it's idiotic, since he just doesn't have a clue about anything.

[Ecthy]

Originally posted by Sava

M Bison

[Agathon]

And to further the joke... the only Jews I can find associated with Bolivar are accused of helping the man...

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Ecthy


M Bison

Old joke... but still funny.

[Pax]

It's obvious he's talking about Spain.
Venezuelan Valero is buying out gas station, petroleum resources in the U.S. of texas. So you tell me we(U.S. A.) should not take Venezuela seriously.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Ninot
even a Rabbi says he doesnt think this was a racist remark against the Jews.

waskow's a pretty firm lefty (do you really want to learn about eco-kashrut?) - he'll do what he can to interprete this away.

I of cource believe that the Romans killed Jesus. I would expect that the average Venezualan man on the street hears about those whove killed jesus, and thinks Jews. Which obviously arent Chavez' target, as see the references to Bolivar, etc. But if youve got a populace that isnt as hung up about Bolivar as Chavez is, but IS hung up about the death of Christ, why not use rhetoric that first brings up an old hatred of the Jews, and then take that hatred and turn it on the rich, etc? Its a similar strategy to what some european rightists, like Lueger and the the Austrian Christian Socials used against socialists.

I dont know whether Chavez in his heart hates Jews (Lueger apparently did not)- hell, i dont know whether in his heart he really hates the rich, or whether he is just cynically using populism to gain and maintain power. I do think that references to the crucifixion of christ, and to descendants of those who did so, are dangerous to bring into political discourse, especially with the level of ambiguity employed here (by contrast, William Jennings Bryan in his cross of gold speech used the crucifixion purely as metaphor, and made no reference, IIRC, to the actual crucifixion)

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by KrazyHorse
I think Chavez is a mediocre leader with delusions of grandeur who's singled out for far more than his fair share of abuse by many in the West.

I in no way think that he's a saviour of the Venezuelan people.

The way you read it in some places, hes not only the savio(u)r of the Venezualan people, hes the savio(u)r of latin america, and the beginning of a world campaign against globaliz(s)ation and American hegemony.