Chavez: man of the masses, protector of the weak, racist

[notyoueither]

Oh. So now it is anti-semitism made acceptable by the needs of international relations.

What happened to 'not finding it at all?'

[Barnabas]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Oh. So now it is anti-semitism made acceptable by the needs of international relations.

If that were true it would be pretty much like Israel not recognizing the armenian genocide because of their international relations with Turkey.


But the speech doesnt strike me as anti semitic, more anti american, anti elites.
You may be reading between the lines things that are not there.

jews were certainly not the same people who "crucified bolivar"

he just means the world elites and is making himself a hero, romans vs jesus, spanish loyalists vs bolivar, and now yanks vs chavez

[notyoueither]

Yes. Romans vs Jesus when someone says 'Christ killer'. It makes so much sense. That's what people have meant with the phrase for thousands of years, and countless pogroms where Jews, er, I mean Romans were killed.

[Barnabas]

you think chavez will kill jews?

[Barnabas]

by the way, in latin america there is a very important tradition of extreme left wing catholicism, called liberation theology, that sees jesus and his message as some kind of ghandi like marxist revolutionary, protector of the poor and weak agaisnt the elites, it was based on the speeches of jesus about the poor and on the story of the jews as slaves in egypt and how god helped them to be free from the opressors.

Whithin that kind of thought, the oposition jesus vs roman authorities is greater than jesus vs jews.

Although almsot always the jews who wanted jesus crucified and the romans who crucified him are seen as the same thing, the elite.

proabbly this ideas have influenced chavez.
chavez talks about jesus a lot, A LOT
but sometimes you dont get if he means jesus as god, or jesus just as a great human hero revolutionary example etc


If I recall correctly this theory was declared heresy in the late 80´s, current pope who was just ratzinger back then was responsible for declaring liberation theology a heresy back then by the way. the brasilian priest main ideologist of this had to seat in the same chair galileo seated.

[Barnabas]

from wiki

liberation theology

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Brachy-Pride
you think chavez will kill jews?

Maybe not. Maybe he'll just help normalise hatred of them. The idea seems to find fertile soil in people like GePap.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Brachy-Pride
by the way, in latin america there is a very important tradition of extreme left wing catholicism, called liberation theology, that sees jesus and his message as some kind of ghandi like marxist revolutionary, protector of the poor and weak agaisnt the elites, it was based on the speeches of jesus about the poor and on the story of the jews as slaves in egypt and how god helped them to be free from the opressors.

Whithin that kind of thought, the oposition jesus vs roman authorities is greater than jesus vs jews.

Although almsot always the jews who wanted jesus crucified and the romans who crucified him are seen as the same thing, the elite.

proabbly this ideas have influenced chavez.
chavez talks about jesus a lot, A LOT
but sometimes you dont get if he means jesus as god, or jesus just as a great human hero revolutionary example etc


If I recall correctly this theory was declared heresy in the late 80´s, current pope who was just ratzinger back then was responsible for declaring liberation theology a heresy back then by the way. the brasilian priest main ideologist of this had to seat in the same chair galileo seated.

There's a much older tradition among Catholics, and other Christians.

It is one where recriminations over killing the Messiah are used as excuses to persecute Jews.

Do you really want the rest of the world to treat Latin America as the retards of the world? They who do not have a clue about the larger world that they are part of?

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Brachy-Pride
from wiki

liberation theology

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology

http://www.newadvent.org/library/docs_df84lt.htm

[Barnabas]

I dont think he made that christmas speech thinking of the rest of the world sincerely, and why should he?
After all if was just a christmas speech for the people of Venezuela.

In fact, most likely he just says what he feels and doesnt prepare any speech, after all, he talks for hours like Castro.

I think anybody with a 2 inches forehead and a basic level bible belt exegesis should understand that it is not an anti semitic speech, since he refers nowhere in his speech to jews, they dont make almost 10% of the world population, they dont control more than 50% of the worlds wealth, they had nothing to do with bolivar, and, specifically, accurately, it was romans who killed jesus, not jews.

he just means the wealthy elites, and is comparing himself to jesus and bolivar. duh
and that is how all the venezuelans who heard the speech understood that.

Probably,
a) he didnt think the speech would be misunderstood by foreigners
b) didnt think about it at all, since he usually improvises his speeches
c)considered the possibility of being misunderstood as irrelevant
d)thought some would understand, and some would complain, and didnt care

Of course I know what the history of the term christ killer is, and chavez too (I hope).
But pretending that Chavez should prepare his speeched to the venezuelan people, with special care to not cause a misunderstading with some foreigners, would be like telling east asians to stop marking buddhist temples on their maps with svastikas.

[notyoueither]

Right. Retards it is.

Ignorant of the history of their very own culture.

[Edan]

Originally posted by Sava
well, I think the whole "racist" angle on this is a bunch of bull****

there's nothing in his past rhetoric to suggest Chavez is anti-semitic...

In August, President Chavez cautioned citizens against following the lead of Jewish citizens in the effort to overturn his referendum victory. Anti-Semitic leaflets also were available to the public in an Interior and Justice Ministry office waiting room.

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/40258.htm

A few days after his electoral victory, President Chavez gave a speech in which he compared the opposition to "wandering Jews."

http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/irf/2005/51657.htm

[Agathon]

And as for the endless need to see anti-semitism everywhere, it is boring. Its is also annoying, just as bad as Godwinization, and in the end utterly counter-productive.

Word.

Anti-semitism to people like LOTM means disagreeing with pr criticising a Jew at whatever time for whatever reason.

I don't like Barbra Streisand's music, and I think Steven Spielberg's films are sentimental trash, therefore I support Hitler.

What's worse is that accusations like this are used by many Jewish people to cover up their own racist tendencies. So what if you want to feel special... get lost... I and most of the world don't care about race.


When some of you clowns can actually make sense of why Chavez compared those responsible for the crucifixion with those responsible for the downfall of Bolivar (when there were no Jews involved in the second case), then there might be something worth talking about.

Until then, you are just being moronic, although that's par for the course with NYE.

[Last Conformist]

And what about Edan's points ...

[Edan]

"The world has enough for all, but it turned out that some minorities, descendants of those who crucified Christ, descendants of those who threw Bolivar out of here and also crucified him in their own way in Santa Marta, there in Colombia. A minority took the world's riches for themselves,"

It strikes me that he says minorities. That could easily mean that he's talking about Jews and whoever he blames for Bolivar.