Arnold must decide if killer is executed

[Ted Striker]

I also forgot to mention Charles Manson, a great guy, who is currently....


not on death row.


Equitable justice

[Winston]

Math doesn't enter into it, brickhead.

Your tables show the make-up of the ones on Death Row and in the graveyard at the end of the line, not that certain races are being unfairly targeted as a proportion of the crimes they commit or for that matter, of the guilty convictions they receive.

[flash9286]

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Winston
Math doesn't enter into it, brickhead.

Your tables show the make-up of the ones on Death Row and in the graveyard at the end of the line, not that certain races are being unfairly targeted as a proportion of the crimes they commit or for that matter, of the guilty convictions they receive.

That evidence was pretty overwhelming, but since you asked for it.....

A review of the federal death penalty by the Justice Department, released on September 12, 2000, found numerous racial and geographic disparities. The report revealed that 80% of the cases submitted by federal prosecutors for death penalty review in the past five years have involved racial minorities as defendants. In more than half of those cases, the defendant was African-American. Attorney General Janet Reno said she was "sorely troubled" by the results of the report and has ordered United States attorneys to help explain the racial and ethnic disparities.
The report also found that 40% of the 682 cases sent to the Justice Department for approval to seek the death penalty were filed by only five jurisdictions.

The first step in determining the presence of racial discrimination in the death penalty is to look at the raw data: from among the eligible homicides, how often are black defendants sentenced to death and how often are others sentenced to death?

The raw data of death sentences in Philadelphia between 1983 and 1993, provide the first piece of disturbing evidence that race discrimination may be operating. The rate at which eligible black defendants were sentenced to death was nearly 40% higher than the rate for other eligible defendants. A sentencing rate is simply a ratio of the number of death sentences for a particular group compared to the total number of cases of that group which would be eligible for a death sentence. In the chart below, a death sentencing rate of .18 for blacks means that for every 100 eligible black defendants, 18 will be sentenced to death. For other defendants, only 13 out of 100 will be similarly sentenced.

http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?scid=45&did=539

[Winston]

flash,

That's an interesting table. But you should complete it with information of its source, jurisdiction, time period, sample size, definition of 'culpability level' (which seems to open up all kinds of avenues for arbitrary skewing of the numbers), and possibly whether it has been presented to the courts as evidence of racial disparity (the real lithmus test here), and if so, how the courts judged its validity and any action they might have taken as a result.

The fact of the matter is, proof of racial disparity in criminal cases is very hard to come by, due to incomparability of individual criminal cases. Which is one of the reasons one shouldn't fling claims of unfairness around like Ted Striker did, unless one has the proof for the accusations ready.

Another thing, you could just as well say that more people are sentenced to death for killing blacks than for killing people of any other race, which is true, but which says little in terms of any unfairness when you consider the distribution of murder cases on different races.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
The Death Penalty is:

1) Hypocricy

Why?

2) Not a deterrent

Debateable. I happen to believe that it is though.

3) Unjust

Based on what?

4) Unchristian

Against current Catholic doctrine? That's a given. I'd love to see the arguement that it is unChristian though.

How is this relavent to Tookie and him murdering people in cold blood?

[flash9286]

Originally posted by Winston
flash,

That's an interesting table. But you should complete it with information of its source, jurisdiction, time period, sample size, definition of 'culpability level' (which seems to open up all kinds of avenues for arbitrary skewing of the numbers), and possibly whether it has been presented to the courts as evidence of racial disparity (the real lithmus test here), and if so, how the courts judged its validity and any action they might have taken as a result.

The fact of the matter is, proof of racial disparity in criminal cases is very hard to come by, due to incomparability of individual criminal cases. Which is one of the reasons one shouldn't fling claims of unfairness around like Ted Striker did, unless one has the proof for the accusations ready.

Another thing, you could just as well say that more people are sentenced to death for killing blacks than for killing people of any other race, which is true, but which says little in terms of any unfairness when you consider the distribution of murder cases on different races.

I would have posted the article it came from but it would violate copyright laws. The article appeared in Cornell Law review it was titiled Racial Discrimination and the Death Penalty in the Post-Furman Era: An Empirical and Legal Overview, with Recent Findings from Philadelphia

[Winston]

Ted Striker,

Ok, let me make this perfectly clear to you. The fact that more black people are sentenced to death than their proportion of the general population would seem to dictate, is not a proof of racial bias in the application of the death penalty. It is a result of the relatively high ratio of people from this group getting charged with murder, tried, convicted and sentenced.

Again, the fact that a higher ratio of blacks 'eligible for the death penalty' than others get sentenced to death is a meaningless piece of statistic, due to the incomparability of individual cases, and also the relatively small sample sizes.

Besides, as this is about the sentence of Stanley Williams, due to be carried out in 7 hours from now, bringing up the issue of alleged racial disparity seems to indicate you would want him to get off because he's black, not based on the merits of the case against him. As ridiculous as that is, I can certainly understand your position, since Williams' crimes and the conviction by the courts leave absolutely no room for thinking he should be spared.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Winston
Again, the fact that a higher ratio of blacks 'eligible for the death penalty' than others get sentenced to death is a meaningless piece of statistic, due to the incomparability of individual cases, and also the relatively small sample sizes

?

[Winston]

The criteria of being 'eligible for the death penalty' fails to address mitigating or aggravating circumstances raised during the penalty phase of individual cases.

Having been found guilty of killing a person with premeditation, in some states killing numerous persons with premeditation, will make you eligible for the death penalty, but that status says nothing about the specific circumstances leading up to the sentencing.

Which makes summaries of death sentences based on race - or whether you wear glasses, a toupé or drink whole milk - a meaningless piece of statistic.

[Ted Striker]

LOL

I would say the Department of Justice case load analysis over a 5 year period is a pretty respectable sample size but that's just me.

[Ted Striker]

Originally posted by Winston
Being eligible for the death penalty fails to address mitigating or aggravating circumstances raised during the penalty phase of individual cases.

Having been found guilty of killing a person with premeditation, in some states killing numerous persons with premeditation, will make you eligible for the death penalty, but that status says nothing about the specific circumstances leading up to the sentencing.

Which makes summaries of death sentences based on race - or whether you wear glasses, a toupé or drink whole milk - a meaningless piece of statistic.

There are just as many "specific circumstances" for the other races as well.

Look at the aggregate, and all that stuff washes itself out anyway.

[Winston]

I give up.

Will you at least promise not to appear on my behalf if I'm ever faced with a charge of capital murder.

[Donegeal]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
I also forgot to mention Charles Manson, a great guy, who is currently....


not on death row.


Equitable justice

Tried, convicted and sentenced when there was no Death Penalty in California.

Equitable Justice indeed!!!

[edit] Well I'll be... I was wrong. [/edit]

[Ted Striker]

Actually he was sentenced to death but it was later commuted.

Thanks for trying though!