Arnold must decide if killer is executed

[MarkG]

Not predicted. Planned.

dont you often say "if this happens, i'm going to be so mad i'm going to start smashing stuff"?

[The Mad Monk]

No.

[asleepathewheel]

I'm glad I don't live in LA.

This really just seals it for me: execute him.

I hope that Arnie has the strength and courage to not listen to these people and make the decision on his own (either way) without regard to threats.

[Winston]

Oh what the heck..

Looks like everything is ready and waiting for Tookie to drop by in 27 hours' time..

[appleciders]

Everyone seems to think he's got no redeeming value, but the Nobel Comittee seems to think otherwise.

Williams has reportedly been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize every year since 2001.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanley_Williams#Nobel_Peace_Prize_nomination

I'm not totally opposed to the death penalty, but this is an instance where this man can continue to benefit society from his jail cell. No one's saying release him, just leave him in prison for the rest of his life.

[Winston]

That's one person, a lecturer at a university somewhere who has repeatedly nominated him for the Nobel Prize. I could nominate Kim Jong-Il tomorrow, wouldn't make him less of a tremendous sociopath.

And on the subject of Williams' benefits to society from his jail cell, this is a man who's been involved in fights, beatings of other inmates to the point of guards having to fire their guns at him, on several occasions he has thrown chemical substances at guards, he's threatened to 'dust' correctional officers, gotten himself stabbed in a gang fight, and has himself had a shank, a homemade knife, confiscated.

Somehow I think the place where he could be of the most benefit to society would be on that gurney tomorrow night.

[Shi Huangdi]

Tookie Williams helped negotiate peace between the Bloods and the Crips. He is presently doing work to help combat gang influence through his book writing. Moreover, it is likely if he is executed that it will lead to violence in the streets and in the prisons as people try to take revenge.

I think the DP is justified generally only when it is needed to protect society. It seems likely enough in this case Tookie's life is benefiting society. I think he should be spared the death penalty.

[Dinner]

The members of the gang he founded in LA (the Crips) are supposedly planning to start a riot when he is executed. I hope the cops shot them. This would be nothing more then another attempt to loot stuff and not a protest for social justice.

[General Ludd]

Arnold Schwarzenegger being given the power to decide if someone lives or dies? Only in america.

"I'm working on it. I'm looking, studying the whole thing, reading a lot, last night until 11 o'clock, almost to midnight,"

[Seeker]

Hey Arnie what would Conan do? WWCD?

"Let me die not by lethal injection, but in combat"

I say gladiatorial games are where it's at.

Tookie gets to fight Arnie in a televised deathmatch, fought in a specially constructed ThunderDome.

Thoughts?

[Lawrence of Arabia]

the death penalty is not punishment, its revenge.

[ajbera]

Originally posted by Shi Huangdi
Tookie Williams helped negotiate peace between the Bloods and the Crips. He is presently doing work to help combat gang influence through his book writing. Moreover, it is likely if he is executed that it will lead to violence in the streets and in the prisons as people try to take revenge.

Are the Bloods and the Crips still at peace? Or is it as fleeting as those Israeli/Palestinian brokered peace accords?

Do you have any data regarding the effectiveness of his books? I have something...

The portrayal of Williams as some pied piper of peace for the gang community also holds very little water. A quick review of Book Scan shows the Tookie series of books have hardly been blockbusters. His top seller, "Gangs and Violence" has sold 330 books. Another book "Gangs and Wanting to Belong" sold exactly two copies. No one is reading his books, least of all his two sons, one of whom is serving time in San Quentin. The other was just arrested on charges of aggravated rape. Poor book sales are not reason to send someone to the execution chamber, but then Williams was not convicted of lackluster book sales. He was found guilty of shooting four innocent people in cold blood, a fact his supporters continue to forget.

http://www.blacknews.com/pr/hollywood201.html

So he may have put a lot of effort into those books, but they don't seem to be very effective. Since good intentions only count for so much, I can't really say that he should be granted clemency on the basis of his literature.

And regarding the nascent violence in the streets and prison, that's effectively a form of extortion. "If you don't give us what we want, we'll go berserk." F*ck that, turn the firehoses and rubber bullets on the savages.

Add his refusal to admit wrongdoing (although, admittedly, I don't know how strong the evidence against him is, so I don't know how realistic his claim of innocence is), his history of violence while imprisoned, and the fact that the Nobel Peace Prize ain't as lustrous as it once was after they gave it to Arafat, I have to admit that I don't think the arguments in Tookie's favor are all that strong right now.

[Winston]

Originally posted by General Ludd
Arnold Schwarzenegger being given the power to decide if someone lives or dies?

This isn't the first time Schwarzenegger has had a death penalty clemency case before him. In January 2005, he denied clemency in the case of Donald Beardslee, who was subsequently executed for the murder of two young women in 1981, while on parole from an earlier murder conviction.

[Flubber]

Irrespective of my views on the death penalty, I really have never liked the concept of a governor's pardon. It, to me, appears to politicize the penalty in a specific case. I think that the punishment for any given individual should be determined by the courts.

I also believe that if you are going to have a death penalty, it should be carried out more quickly than this. Ensure ample time for appeals but even that should mean that the sentence is carried out inside of 5 years unless the appeals succeed. here i am thinking of the families of the victims. If a killer has been sentenced to life, the families know that and move on . .. But if a killer is sentenced to death, that family will probably remain somewhat involved until that sentence is carried out

[Shi Huangdi]

Are the Bloods and the Crips still at peace? Or is it as fleeting as those Israeli/Palestinian brokered peace accords?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crips

To stem violence between the Crips and Bloods, a peace treaty was recently negotiated, most notably in Watts, the treaty being largely based upon the ideals laid forth by original Crip founder Stanley Tookie Williams in his "Tookie Protocol For Peace". Though violence levels have been reduced somewhat after the conclusion of this peace treaty, gangland killings and warfare still persist in heavily gang-controlled areas.

His top seller, "Gangs and Violence" has sold 330 books. Another book "Gangs and Wanting to Belong" sold exactly two copies.

How comprehensive is that list at Bookscan? Does it really have a list of the sales records of every single books? Anyway, there are at least some firsthand accounts(though these may not be credible given the source)

http://www.tookie.com/mail.html

And regarding the nascent violence in the streets and prison, that's effectively a form of extortion. "If you don't give us what we want, we'll go berserk." F*ck that, turn the firehoses and rubber bullets on the savages.

What's to say innocents wouldn't get caught up in those riots, or that civilians or cops might not get killed? There have been some reports that Prisoners would retaliate against the execution of killing guards if Tookie Williams is executed. You might say that is extortion, but if the execution of Tookie Williams would lead to more overall harm to society then good, then the only argument left in favor of execution is revenge.

Add his refusal to admit wrongdoing (although, admittedly, I don't know how strong the evidence against him is, so I don't know how realistic his claim of innocence is),

He was convicted on the testimony of those who were given plea bargains, that is people who agreed to testify against him in exchange for lighter prison sentences. Even if you those testimonies are believed to be credible, any chance that they might not be could lead to enough lingering doubt that would make it worth it not to put in place an irreverisble penalty.