Arnold must decide if killer is executed

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Sava
oh BTW, with the Crips gang now having nationwide membership, HOW EFFECTIVE HAS HIS ANTI-GANG MESSAGE BEEN?

well SHOOT HIM for not stoping gangs by writing books

[Gangerolf]

ok stupid question: why do people sit 26 years in prison before being executed?

[MarkG]

Originally posted by Gangerolf
ok stupid question: why do people sit 26 years in prison before being executed?

i dont think it's because there is a long queue ahead of them

probably the sentenced gets to file a appeal which takes a few years to be trialed, or something like that....

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Berzerker
Redemption? If he is working to redeem himself, assuming he is guilty of course, should we allow the process to continue?

Uhm, after Tookie supposedly quit the Crips (the "organization" he founded), he was stabbed by another inmate in what prison officials believed was a fight over who would lead the Crips. Who gives a **** how many children's books he's written? The message that clemency would send is that you can kill innocent people and be a star. An execution would send the message that killing innocent people requires you pay the price.

Originally posted by Mao
Also, I'm not too familiar with the particulars of the case itself, so who did he kill? I get the feeling that it wasn't necessarily four innocent bystanders, which makes it ever so slightly better (and let's be honest, not all life is the same, killing a drug runner is not the same as killing little Timmy down the street, and maybe it's better that way), right?

He was convicted of killing Albert Owens, Thsai-Shai Yang, Yen-I Yang and Yee Chen Lin. Owens was a teen-age clerk at a 7-11 convenience store, shot twice in the back of the head as he lay unarmed on the floor during a hold-up. The Yangs were immigrants who, along with their daughter Yee Chen Lin, were gunned down during a motel robbery two weeks after Owens died. You tell me if they weren't necessarily four innocent bystanders.

Originally posted by Berzerker
Life in prison seeking redemption is quite a price

Redemption if the term is to have any meaning, requires an admission of guilt, facing up to what you did and expressing remorse. Williams has done none of that. So spare me the painful joke of his claimed redemption.

[Gangerolf]

Originally posted by MarkG
i dont think it's because there is a long queue ahead of them

probably the sentenced gets to file a appeal which takes a few years to be trialed, or something like that....

yah, but 26 years?? but I suppose once they got him locked up anyway there's no real reason to fry him right away.
but on the other hand, if they did, they wouldn't be having these moral dilemmas now

[Winston]

This guy hasn't admitted his guilt, much less repented or expressed sorrow over his actions, which in my view is the first requirement for being eligible for executive clemency, and having his sentence commuted to LWOP.

There is no question of his guilt, the evidence is undisputed by his legal representatives at this stage, and he has been on Death Row for 24 years.

There are no mitigating circumstances surrounding his conviction, which was for killing 4 people in two separate incidents, robbery of a motel and of a convenience store.

On a side note, virtually no mention of his actual crimes and their victims get through the nauseating media coverage of all the clueless 'celebrities' paying homage to this killer and his alleged change of heart - curiously only after being caught and locked up for being a human monster on the streets of Los Angeles.

Doesn't make any difference to me whether he's turned his life around while on Death Row, which incidentally I don't believe he has, otherwise he'd have owned up and expressed remorse for his heinous crimes.

So in conclusion, yes..

'Tis the season to 'fry' Tookie.

[Sava]

Originally posted by MarkG
well SHOOT HIM for not stoping gangs by writing books

It's just that people in the other thread were saying how he deserves clemency because he is writing books urging kids to stay out of gangs... as if it would be good for society if he does not receive the Death Penalty.

Clearly his anti-gang message has been ineffective.

So if Arnold grants him clemency, the lesson learned is, you can kill a bunch of people, but then write some children's books and then avoid the death penalty.

WORKS FOR ME

and it pains me to do this... but... Winston

and even if he expressed remorse, I still say put him to death...

expressions of remorse or guilt when faced with the possibility of death are meaningless...

maybe if he really had a conscience, HE WOULDN'T HAVE KILLED THOSE PEOPLE IN THE FIRST PLACE

[Tuberski]

Maybe he should have written the books before he went to prison.

ACK!

[DanS]

I don't agree with the death penalty, but the law's the law and I don't see why this guy should get special treatment.

[Barnabas]

kill him but fast, dont make him suffer

[Winston]

And California really ought to get cracking. They have the largest Death Row population in the United States, 651 inmates under the sentence of death, and in the 28 years since the death penalty was reinstated has only executed 11. Williams would be the 12th, and next month a 75-year old man is scheduled to be the 13th, for killing 3 people in 1980 in a murder-for-hire scheme.

So in 28 years that's 13 down, 649 to go..

Something tells me there are forces within the system who couldn't give a rat's ass about the people of California having repeatedly expressed overwhelming support for the death penalty in referendums, upwards of 70 percent supporting it.

Either you have it, or you don't. California has it, but it would seem there are some mechanisms in its justice system that aren't too keen on following through with it.

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by DanS
I don't agree with the death penalty, but the law's the law and I don't see why this guy should get special treatment.

[Cyclotron]

Originally posted by Winston
Something tells me there are forces within the system who couldn't give a rat's ass about the people of California having repeatedly expressed overwhelming support for the death penalty in referendums, upwards of 70 percent supporting it.

As a native Californian, I'm not sure there are such forces. All political elements of any importance, as well as the majority of the voters, are for the death penalty. It seems more likely, from my experience of Californian politics, that it's a result of a lot of backlogged appeals courts, and a vocal activist minority (but they certainly aren't "in the system").

[Sava]

Originally posted by Tuberski
Maybe he should have written the books before he went to prison.

ACK!

I don't see how that makes any difference.

I think the issue here is the whole murdering four people part.

[GePap]

I am opposed ot the DP, but the guy has never shown remorse for his actions. That is a big part of rehabilitation.