Canadian government to fall

[Asher]

What he means is Toronto and Vancouver suck -- crime-ridden cities.

[joncha]

Originally posted by Max Webster


I take it you live in Canada. I realize we have our rough spots too. I was just responding to Ben's the US is better than Canada rhetoric.

Yes, with some rhetoric of your own. I don't even bother trying to argue with BK anymore, so I figured my time was better served tackling yours.

[Max Webster]

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn
First, I'm American and Canadian. I live, and have lived, in Canada.

Second, like I said, the US, the US government and the Republican party have absolutely nothing to do with these elections. There is no reason, in a Canadian election thread, for the United States to even come up at all.

And the fact that you are even entertaining the thought that the US Gov't might be "messing" with elections here indicates the sort of xenophobic fantasy land you live in.

The only thing I'm fearful of is America's current goverment and the people that support it. America is a great country and I like many things about it.
Why shouldn't America be discussed in this thread. Your our neighbours, your influence is great. It matters to me how our political leaders deal with that influence.

[Max Webster]

Originally posted by joncha


Yes, with some rhetoric of your own. I don't even bother trying to argue with BK anymore, so I figured my time was better served tackling yours.

Yeah, I know I get carried away sometimes.

[Max Webster]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Well said joncha.

Max Webster:

I personally have seen folks that have waited a year for treatment, including my grandmother. Count yourself fortunate that you haven't experienced the waits, they are very real and a huge problem that needs to be dealt with, not ignored.

I agree. There is always room for improvement. I'm not sure the problem is a huge as some people make it out to be. I know our local goverment has pumped money into our area hospital. Its emergency area is being upgraded among other things.

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
True, but that doesn't change the fact that the average income in the US is still 20% higher then in Canada.

You mean average mean income, compared to average median income. Both are averages. On the whole, the median average income better reflects the prosperity, or lack of it, of a population.

[Ben Kenobi]

It depends on who you are looking at. Someone who is college educated is not going to want to look at the median income as an indicator of what he can expect to earn.

[Jon Miller]

the median income is a lot closer then the mean for most college people

the number of people who exit college, and get jobs that pay ~20k is the majority, I think

JM

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben, how many places in Canada and the US have you been to? I thought it was just Prince George and Vancouver (and likely points between) in Canada and a single bus trip to Texas and back with a stop over in Oregon. Am I correct? You're also aware that the Downtown Eastside of Vancouver is literally the worst urban neighbourhood in Canada by almost any statistical measurement, right?

Not quite right, I rode the bus all the way down to Texas, so I got a chance to see most places in between. Coming from Canada I went down the coast, through Seattle, Portland and LA then to Phoenix, Lordsburg and El Paso. On the way back I went north, through Lubbock, Amarillo, Denver, Salt Lake City, Boise, and then back to Oregon again.

For Canada, I have been almost everywhere in BC, I've been up to Prince Rupert and Grande Prairie, as well as down the Okanagan to Vernon and Penticton. I've visited the Island, and lived in Vancouver for 5 years. The only part I haven't visited are the Kootenays.

I have been to Calgary three times now, Toronto three times, Ottawa twice, Montreal once. Haven't been out to the maritimes.

[Ben Kenobi]

the number of people who exit college, and get jobs that pay ~20k is the majority, I think

For entry level, but you also have to recognise is that their pay will increase substantially over time. And it makes a great difference depending on what you choose to do.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


True, but that doesn't change the fact that the average income in the US is still 20% higher then in Canada. I agree that they have more income disparity, which is a function of having lower taxes. We tax our high earners in order for the folks who make less to have more money. Interestingly, the greatest bulk of the transfers do not go to the poorest folks in Canada. We take from the top 20% to give to the middle income earners.

No they don't.

You are operating under a fundamental misconception, Ben. The primary funciton of the tax system is not redistributive. In fact in all countries like Canada, the tax system is not particularly redistributive since higher income earners tend to make more use of public services than lower income earners.

But this is not primarily why we pay tax. We pay tax because markets will fail to provide us with adequate levels of certain goods due to collective action problems, or because we will end up paying too much for certain goods if we pay for them through the market. That's why we have a public health system: whatever its deficiencies, it is vastly cheaper and more efficient than private insurance. You can't deny this, it is supported by the facts.

We pay tax to offset the effects of market failure. Unless you know what market failure is and why it happens, you have no business talking about the economic organization of modern states. Both you and NYE seem completely ignorant of this, which is what makes your opinions on the issues misinformed. In general, the right just do not understand why we pay tax, and hence they whine about it. You guys are like flat earthers when it comes to politics. He's worse than you are as he simply doesn't have any idea of what he is talking about.

The fact that Americans have lower taxes just means that Americans have a preference against organizing the provision of certain goods through the state. They pay for this preference by tolerating ridiculous inefficiencies (like the ridiculous amounts they pay for health care - or their crappy public services).

Canada is not a rich country compared to the United States, yet it manages to provide its citizens with a superior standard of living. The current Canadian way is simply more efficient.

The political right is simply incapable of admitting that government can contribute to the efficiency of the economy. Problem is, that the government is the #1 contributor of efficiency to the economy. It's only because right wing blowhards have ranted on for years about the inefficiency of government (which they don't understand) that people believe the opposite.

You guys need to get with the facts.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


True, but that doesn't change the fact that the average income in the US is still 20% higher then in Canada. I agree that they have more income disparity, which is a function of having lower taxes. We tax our high earners in order for the folks who make less to have more money. Interestingly, the greatest bulk of the transfers do not go to the poorest folks in Canada. We take from the top 20% to give to the middle income earners.

No they don't.

You are operating under a fundamental misconception, Ben. The primary funciton of the tax system is not redistributive. In fact in all countries like Canada, the tax system is not particularly redistributive since higher income earners tend to make more use of public services than lower income earners.

But this is not primarily why we pay tax. We pay tax because markets will fail to provide us with adequate levels of certain goods due to collective action problems, or because we will end up paying too much for certain goods if we pay for them through the market. That's why we have a public health system: whatever its deficiencies, it is vastly cheaper and more efficient than private insurance. You can't deny this, it is supported by the facts.

We pay tax to offset the effects of market failure. Unless you know what market failure is and why it happens, you have no business talking about the economic organization of modern states. Both you and NYE seem completely ignorant of this, which is what makes your opinions on the issues misinformed. In general, the right just do not understand why we pay tax, and hence they whine about it. You guys are like flat earthers when it comes to politics. He's worse than you are as he simply doesn't have any idea of what he is talking about.

The fact that Americans have lower taxes just means that Americans have a preference against organizing the provision of certain goods through the state. They pay for this preference by tolerating ridiculous inefficiencies (like the ridiculous amounts they pay for health care - or their crappy public services).

Canada is not a rich country compared to the United States, yet it manages to provide its citizens with a superior standard of living. The current Canadian way is simply more efficient.

The political right is simply incapable of admitting that government can contribute to the efficiency of the economy. Problem is, that the government is the #1 contributor of efficiency to the economy. It's only because right wing blowhards have ranted on for years about the inefficiency of government (which they don't understand) that people believe the opposite.

You guys need to get with the facts.

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


For entry level, but you also have to recognise is that their pay will increase substantially over time. And it makes a great difference depending on what you choose to do.

not always...

some start getting paid 20k, and end getting paid 40k..

JM

[Tingkai]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
It depends on who you are looking at. Someone who is college educated is not going to want to look at the median income as an indicator of what he can expect to earn.

Neither is an indicator of what a person with a college/university education can expect to earn.

If you want an indicator for that situation then you need to look at the median average for people with post-secondary educations, or better yet, the median average for people with a similar degree.

The gap in the mean income averages merely indicates a wider income gap in the U.S., i.e. billionaires in the U.S. are better off than in Canada.

If you are never going to be a super wealthy then the mean average difference will not affect you.

[notyoueither]

That's why we have a public health system: whatever its deficiencies, it is vastly cheaper and more efficient than private insurance. You can't deny this, it is supported by the facts.

Which facts are those?

Canada is not a rich country compared to the United States, yet it manages to provide its citizens with a superior standard of living. The current Canadian way is simply more efficient.

According to whom? By what scale?

You guys need to get with the facts.

Here's your opportunity to show us some. Go ahead.