Canadian government to fall

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Kontiki:



Whereas this is no different here in Canada. If you have the cash you can see a private clinic, just like the hockey players, MPs and the rest while the ordinary folks have to wait. I don't see why we have any cause to boast about our health care in comparison to the Americans.

Because a poor person here will get much much better care than a poor person in the US. The truly very rich will get exactly the same care . . . the best that money can buy in whatever private hospital they choose.

and for the middle . .. I'll see your "Canadian long wait list stories" and raise you a whole bunch of "HMO horror stories."

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


True, but that doesn't change the fact that the average income in the US is still 20% higher then in Canada. I agree that they have more income disparity, which is a function of having lower taxes. We tax our high earners in order for the folks who make less to have more money. Interestingly, the greatest bulk of the transfers do not go to the poorest folks in Canada. We take from the top 20% to give to the middle income earners.



Right like someone with a university degree is going to be an 'average' earner either. For the folks who are educated the US is a better deal for them.

So you do want to move the goal posts again. I thought so.

[Ben Kenobi]

Damn, it ate my reply to aggie. I'll just say this. You say everything is good here in Canada. I grew up here, and going back home reminds me of the problems. Everyone my age has left, those that stay are in school getting what they need to leave, or they are my parents' age with good jobs. They leave for Alberta, because that is where they can work and start building their lives.

When I went to the US I was shocked how Vancouver resembled downtown LA, I even walked around the bus stop there just because I found that hard to believe. We have been told many things about Canada, that just aren't true. I have seen many beautiful places in the US, and I am looking forward to the time when I can start a life down there.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi




Whereas I was wrong about the Americans owing less, they still have much lower taxes then we do. I don't think we have anything to brag about in terms of our debtload because we tax folks up to the gills in order to pay off our debt. If the Americans wanted to eliminate their deficit, there is nothing stopping them from doing so; if they started now they would be starting from a better position then we did.

A couple of points

1. If you factor in the health care premiums into a US citizen's burden , I don't think you will see the huge discrepancy you suggest. I don't recall exact numbers but when my wife worked in Texas she paid hundreds of dollars a month on health care premiums. Lets say it was 200 . . thats 2400 annually. ON a salary of approximately 36000, thats a "tax" of 6.6667%. I believe that the actual numbers were higher but we can probably entice some Americans to share their health care costs. Note at that level of income my wife would be taxed in Canada a a marginal rate of 32%

2. If its so easy for the Americans to eliminate their deficit, why aren't they doing so ?? The defict this year is somewhere around 400 Billion isn't it? Is it so easy to wave a magic wand and change that?

[Ben Kenobi]

Flubber:

200 dollars a month? That seems high. I was looking at travel coverage and it wasn't 200 a month.

Secondly, since I am not on a health care plan atm, I get charged 50 dollars from the Canadian government, even though I have not enough income to pay taxes. So for me, the situation is about the same, pay about 75 a month for coverage in the states, and make good money, or pay 50 in Canada, and have a hard time finding work.

As for the deficit, that will depend on the structure of the US debt. That's why the real financial folks look at the terms of the debt, if most of the US debt is low interest and long term, it will be different if most of it is short term. And, as my American friends remind me, there's a war on. Once the war is finished, then the Americans can get back to the business of debt reduction.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Damn, it ate my reply to aggie. I'll just say this. You say everything is good here in Canada. I grew up here, and going back home reminds me of the problems.

NO one with any sense would assert that "everything is good" in Canada.

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Everyone my age has left, those that stay are in school getting what they need to leave, or they are my parents' age with good jobs. They leave for Alberta, because that is where they can work and start building their lives.

Urbanization and relocation of jobs is a global phenomenon. Its not surprising and its not necessarily a bad thing

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
When I went to the US I was shocked how Vancouver resembled downtown LA, I even walked around the bus stop there just because I found that hard to believe. We have been told many things about Canada, that just aren't true.

What have you been told and by whom??

Becasue I can pick pretty much any topic and SOMEONE has told me something about it that isn't true.

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi I have seen many beautiful places in the US, and I am looking forward to the time when I can start a life down there.

I have only been to Texas, New England, Montana and Florida and I already know there are beautiful places in the US . .. lots of them . . SO WHAT? There are also beautiful places in Switzerland and Thailand and Australia. What does that have to do with anything?

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Originally posted by Max Webster


If the US had anything to do with Canadian elections, then why do we get liberal partys who usually don't agree with your republican party's. Your country might influence our goverments decision making but I doubt if the US messes with the elections. But I never really siad the US messes with elections. I just siad I don't want our country to go as far right as your country.
Canada will never be like the US, anybody thats travelled between the two countries can see lots of differences. I don't think I really need to vote liberal in the hope that we stay different than the US. Even our right wingers look upon the US right wingers with some trepidation.

First, I'm American and Canadian. I live, and have lived, in Canada.

Second, like I said, the US, the US government and the Republican party have absolutely nothing to do with these elections. There is no reason, in a Canadian election thread, for the United States to even come up at all.

And the fact that you are even entertaining the thought that the US Gov't might be "messing" with elections here indicates the sort of xenophobic fantasy land you live in.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Flubber:

200 dollars a month? That seems high. I was looking at travel coverage and it wasn't 200 a month.

Its based on a hazy recollection but your travel coverage probably only covers "emergency care". My wife's insurance would have to cover for long term illnesses as well. For example would your "travel coverage" treat you for cancer?

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

As for the deficit, that will depend on the structure of the US debt. That's why the real financial folks look at the terms of the debt, if most of the US debt is low interest and long term, it will be different if most of it is short term. And, as my American friends remind me, there's a war on. Once the war is finished, then the Americans can get back to the business of debt reduction.

I can partially agree here. The war does have high economic costs that contribute to the deficit. However, do you really think that the US defence spending will go down that much even if they could end their involvement in Iraq? Isn't it equally likely that other threats will emerge that will require additional interventions

[Ben Kenobi]

NO one with any sense would assert that "everything is good" in Canada.

I was responding to Agathon's statement.

Urbanization and relocation of jobs is a global phenomenon. Its not surprising and its not necessarily a bad thing

No, nor should folks be surprised if the young folks respond by leaving Canada altogether in search of better opportunities.

What have you been told and by whom??

Becasue I can pick pretty much any topic and SOMEONE has told me something about it that isn't true.

Basically what Max Webster talks about was my impression of the inner cities in the US. I was shocked to see how poorly Vancouver stacked up, I figured things would be much much worse in the US.

I have only been to Texas, New England, Montana and Florida and I already know there are beautiful places in the US . .. lots of them . . SO WHAT? There are also beautiful places in Switzerland and Thailand and Australia. What does that have to do with anything?

If you believe that the US is generally a bad place to live, then it is an eye opener.

[Ben Kenobi]

I can partially agree here. The war does have high economic costs that contribute to the deficit. However, do you really think that the US defence spending will go down that much even if they could end their involvement in Iraq? Isn't it equally likely that other threats will emerge that will require additional interventions

The US is actually doing very well economically, holding the line on the expenditures is going to reduce their deficit as it has happened here in Canada. I don't see them as having to face an endless war against threats everywhere and needing to maintain their awareness at the level they are at now. In fact I think we will be seeing increasing pressure placed on fiscal expenditures over the next while especially once the folks come home again.

[Starchild]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
If you believe that the US is generally a bad place to live, then it is an eye opener.

Just to throw my 2p into the mix, I grew up in the States for nearly ten years and I'd take Canada or Western Europe over it anyday. Different strokes for different folks.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


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quote:

NO one with any sense would assert that "everything is good" in Canada.
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I was responding to Agathon's statement.

I repeat my assertion

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by Starchild
Just to throw my 2p into the mix, I grew up in the States for nearly ten years and I'd take Canada or Western Europe over it anyday. Different strokes for different folks.

Given how diverse the US is geographically, it really depends on where in it you live.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

If you believe that the US is generally a bad place to live, then it is an eye opener.

True but I hold no such view and if I did, I doubt it would be based on the scenery as judged by the beautiful places.