Canadian government to fall

[Ben Kenobi]

So only religious nuts can define Family Values? Nice logic.

Oh, by no means. However if you want to be considered socially conservative, I should think your position ought to differ from the liberals.

[Ben Kenobi]

KH:

http://www.ndir.com/SI/education/debt.shtml

I'd really prefer a breakdown then just the clock. That's why I went to statscanada since they have a much more detailed accounting of the federal debt.

[Ben Kenobi]

per capita Canada - $805.6 billion/31 million = $25,987
per capita US - $9.3 trillion/300 million = $31,000

So, a little over 19% more per capita debt in the US.

And Americans make about 20% more then Canadians. So by your figures, it's a wash. It doesn't matter how much you owe in debt, but how much of a percentage of your income.

[Flubber]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


And Americans make about 20% more then Canadians. So by your figures, it's a wash. It doesn't matter how much you owe in debt, but how much of a percentage of your income.

You continue to ignore the gact that the US is plunging itself into debt at an alarming rate whereas Canada is taking some modest steps to pay down our debt.

Oh and on healthcare . . . it IS legitimate to consider such a high-price item when comparing the incomes of the two countries. . .. and Canada permits you to avail yourself of the US system if you want. If you come up with the cash , I bet you could get a US doctor to do work on you immediately

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


And Americans make about 20% more then Canadians. So by your figures, it's a wash. It doesn't matter how much you owe in debt, but how much of a percentage of your income.

You didn't claim it was a wash, you claimed Americans made more money AND had a lower debt. If it's a wash, there would be no need to try to champion US prosperity over Canadian.

But the reality is, it's not a wash. You were quoting average incomes, which are skewed towards the US's advantages in the highest income levels. If you compare median incomes, you'll find a much different story:

median Canada, 2003 - $23,600

http://www.statcan.ca/Daily/English/050505/d050505b.htm

median US, 2003 - $23,902

http://www.census.gov/prod/2005pubs/p60-229.pdf

You might also note that even the CIA lists this nice little fact about US incomes:

Since 1975, practically all the gains in household income have gone to the top 20% of households.

So you see, the average person does not make 20% more in the US than in Canada. Want to move the goalposts again?

[Max Webster]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Gee, I'd rather have care then have to wait a year or so.

This comment is so vague it doesn't make sense. I have heard stories about long wait times, but i have personally know of people who got attention in a matter of weeks. There are probably many variables that goes into why people have to wait so long.

I guess I'm not the only one guilty of oversimplying things right Jim.

[Max Webster]

Originally posted by Kontiki
US prosperity over Canadian.

Yes as I drive through the streets of Detroit I was just amazed at the level of US prosperity.

Actually I was when I got to the NASCAR event just down the road at Michigan Speedway. Of course I didn't see one black person in sight at the event. But I saw lots of white folk spending LOTs of money.

Yeehaw, God bless America, freedom at any price.

Its all about the Money Honey.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by notyoueither


It is difficult to determine where to begin with this... mess.

Perhaps it would be better to proceed to the end and remind Aggie about the bit along the lines of it being better to keep your mouth closed and let people think you are ignorant than to open it and remove all doubt.

That's the best you can do.

You know nothing about this, as has been proved time after time. Why not stick to ranting in public bars, where you will have an uninformed and appreciative audience for your ill-considered ravings.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by notyoueither

Huh? We export more food, minerals, lumber, electricity, and petrochemicals than we import, by far. At the same time, we are one of the major industrialised economies in the world (meaning we consume a lot of those resources as well). We have more oil than Saudi Arabia FFS, how could anyone other than a dolt say that we are anything other than filthy stinkin' rich (compared to others)?

Jesus Christ.... you have more oil than Saudi Arabia, but which is not currently viable. You are being ridiculous. A country like Russia has much more in the way of natural resources than Canada, yet is so badly organized that it has a lower standard of living.

Canadians should be glad to have it explained to us that leaders from MacDonald through Pearson, and Canadians in general, were lambs wandering the wilderness until PET gave us the scent of our nation.

And who said that? Trudeau is easily the most influential Canadian politician of the century. I don't know any reasonable person who disputes that. Look at what he said, and look at what Canada is like. QED

Now, I'm all for the integration of the mentally handicapped into jobs and functions that can lead to them having more fulfilling lives, but surely we should require that they be more than deaf, dumb, and blind when they claim to have listened to us after having landed at the UofT some few number of years ago, proposing to speak for us from a coffee counter in Toronto (not having worked up the nerve to venture forth into those lands where heathens reside; AKA outside of the GTA) and refusing to see the implications of a federal government putting out contracts that result in millions being kicked back to the ruling party. Did I mention that not a single officer of said party is under indictment as of yet? Why do you suppose that is?

Nice job of avoiding the issue. How bad for the country was the sponsorship scandal? Compare that with how the country is running as a whole. Things are going quite well, I think.

I'm not going to get into defence, healthcare, taxation, and the other areas of our national government that the writer demonstrates a profound ignorance of. They would be boring. I'll leave it at the highlighted howlers, for now.

Because you have nothing. I can cream you in arguments about any of the named areas and you know it.

You are a political and economic illiterate. As has been shown by your refusal to engage in debate and your ridiculous non sequiturs.

[joncha]

Originally posted by Max Webster


Yes as I drive through the streets of Detroit I was just amazed at the level of US prosperity.

Actually I was when I got to the NASCAR event just down the road at Michigan Speedway. Of course I didn't see one black person in sight at the event. But I saw lots of white folk spending LOTs of money.

Yeehaw, God bless America, freedom at any price.

Its all about the Money Honey.

Come visit my neighbourhood. It might just get you off your high horse.

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Again, I believe this number includes the state debt. The only numbers I have seen pegging the US state debt is only about 1 and a half trillion dollars. So in order to compare apples to oranges, you have to include provincial debt.

You can believe what you want, kid, but you are completely wrong.

[Ben Kenobi]

Flubber:

(apologies to Kontiki, all these Canuck flags confuse me).

You continue to ignore the gact that the US is plunging itself into debt at an alarming rate whereas Canada is taking some modest steps to pay down our debt.

Very true. Whereas I was wrong about the Americans owing less, they still have much lower taxes then we do. I don't think we have anything to brag about in terms of our debtload because we tax folks up to the gills in order to pay off our debt. If the Americans wanted to eliminate their deficit, there is nothing stopping them from doing so; if they started now they would be starting from a better position then we did.

Oh and on healthcare . . . it IS legitimate to consider such a high-price item when comparing the incomes of the two countries. . .. and Canada permits you to avail yourself of the US system if you want. If you come up with the cash , I bet you could get a US doctor to do work on you immediately.

Whereas this is no different here in Canada. If you have the cash you can see a private clinic, just like the hockey players, MPs and the rest while the ordinary folks have to wait. I don't see why we have any cause to boast about our health care in comparison to the Americans.

[Ben Kenobi]

But the reality is, it's not a wash. You were quoting average incomes, which are skewed towards the US's advantages in the highest income levels. If you compare median incomes, you'll find a much different story:

True, but that doesn't change the fact that the average income in the US is still 20% higher then in Canada. I agree that they have more income disparity, which is a function of having lower taxes. We tax our high earners in order for the folks who make less to have more money. Interestingly, the greatest bulk of the transfers do not go to the poorest folks in Canada. We take from the top 20% to give to the middle income earners.

So you see, the average person does not make 20% more in the US than in Canada. Want to move the goalposts again?

Right like someone with a university degree is going to be an 'average' earner either. For the folks who are educated the US is a better deal for them.

[Ben Kenobi]

Well said joncha.

Max Webster:

I personally have seen folks that have waited a year for treatment, including my grandmother. Count yourself fortunate that you haven't experienced the waits, they are very real and a huge problem that needs to be dealt with, not ignored.

[Kontiki]

I didn't post any of that, Ben.

Edit: re post #252