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  • Call for ecumenical throwdown!

    Well not really. No throwdowns in this thread. Because these religion natured threads usually go to that, 'uh you're such an idiot because you have faith!' 'I have faith and you are decadent little butt toy!'. You know. Let's keep those issues fighting issues, not posters disrespecting others directly. Just skip it if you don't have anything to say but want to just get the heat on. This is not your thread.

    OK!

    To the point. I was wondering last night, that it struck me.. it struck me that.. what if all the other major religions are right about Jesus and we Christians got it wrong? What if.. Jesus was actually a man just like the rest of us. A very influental well spoken and well meaning important man, but just that.. a prophet perhaps.. but not the Son of God.

    Even if Jesus was not really from Virgin Mary, but Joseph and Mary, well that would make more sense and it wouldn't crumble the thing just there. But if he was a mortal man, a prophet even.. it crumbles in my opinion. Then we would be kind of worshipping a dude, not really son of God. Where does that leave us? Salvation and doors to heaven and God goes through Jesus according to Christianity, and if Christ was just a bum like the rest of us.. well, we'd be in the wrong, out of the field.

    This would mean everyone else is right, Jews, Muslims, everyone. Face it, we are the minority here. And they, Jews and Muslims and all these people, they have investigated too, they have been there when Jesus was there, many gospels don't reckon Jesus was son of God but a prophet and groovy man wearing pajamas and slippers like a hippie. I heard, that in fact MOST gospels tells you this, and the very few gives him the role in son of God.

    We should think that this would be the faith part, one of them, but what if we're just plain wrong. It all depends on what Jesus says, and because he is son of God, he is telling the truth, thus being son of God and all that jazz. But most eye witness reports, as in facts, points that he might not be. Bible is just bunch of writings from different folks, who says what is in there, and that this is it and nothing important is left out? The decision on what is in the bible dominates the Jesus being son of God, but that collection was decided by normal men. What if they just made a mistake by allowing the minority report dominate?

    I think more arguments should be made than 'that's the faith part'. Or that 'because Jesus himself said so'. Now, arguments against and for. I'm going to grill those arguments, not because I have my mind made, but because I want to put those arguments on a test. I'm still Christian and all that, I just had a thought, and now I want to hear your thoughts.

    EVEN if Jesus was a mortal man, it wouldn't of course mean God doesn't exist. It would just mean Christians are bowing to a dude, who really isn't the son of God, but an important man none of the less and that we are just worshipping God in a weird way. Kind of .. blasphemeous way.

    I asked this question from Jesus last night but he was too busy to answer. Now it's your turn.
    In da butt.
    "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
    THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
    "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

  • #2
    And no, because Bible says so isn't the argument I'm looking for. It's not what Koran says, it's not what the Jews say because they kind of left that New Testament to the backseat. So why would Bible be the BOOK OF CORRECT, because I'm thinking if I was born in some other country, I'd be in different religion then, and have a different book, with basically same ideas and those things but then I wouldn't believe Jesus would be son of God.

    So is this just a matter of where you are born? Say I was born in Israel to a Jewish family. Christians would be my buddies because they want to play both sides and bases 'just to be sure' and Jesus was Jewish so they don't want to 'miss anything'. Kind of like making the cake and eating it too.

    But I wouldn't believe in that thing then, AND would I be going to oblivion when I die beacuse of it? What is this. A cruel inside joke by Jesus, if he really was the son of God? 'Let those who are born in non-Christian families get it wrong! BAAHAAHA!'. I mean there's no salvation for most of them then. That seems a bit odd to me. Almost racist. Most people wouldn't have a real choice then.

    So that's why I think it's a matter of where you are born, and if that is so, then it's all but fair. Then again, we are the only folks who think Jesus is son of God. Others don't. We are the minority here.

    LET ME BE MORE CLEAR. If I was told that Jesus is not the son of God, and that I'd have to have faith and believe in God and stuff, I'd prolly have that. IF no one told me or taught me, I wouldn't know about it, thus I would have NO IDEA Jesus would be son of God. That doesn't make a lot fo sense to me. It's taught by other Christians. If I'm born in non-Christian family, odds are that I'm taught something else. How is that faith anyway? Shouldn't I be getting like a .. message from Jesus or something first, because this information is fed to me by mortal men and if it wasn't, I wouldn't know this thing.

    Other religions do it too, but their own way. And they have the same catches we have. The 'Because I Say So, and that's why it's the truth, now have faith because there's no proof what so ever'.

    This explains to me, that it's a matter of where you are born. SO... the US and Europe will be saved and the rest are doomed? Sounds weird to me.
    In da butt.
    "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
    THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
    "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

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    • #3
      ONLY TED STRIKER CAN WRITE THE BOOK OF THE CORRECT CHECK IT BEFORE YOU WRECK IT DONT GET IT TWISTED

      We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

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      • #4
        WORD UP!
        To us, it is the BEAST.

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        • #5
          Yeah but think about it. If no one had an influence on you, and then you'd get all the major religions and their books. You'd read them and assume you'd remember the key parts afterwards. Which one would you choose. I don't believe any of the books can prove much, so it would be matter of .. random pick?!

          No no no no... I need some arguments here.
          In da butt.
          "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
          THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
          "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

          Comment


          • #6
            Out of all of them Hinduism or Buddhism seem to be the most accepting of different viewpoints, but then again Hinduism has the whole caste system in it
            We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

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            • #7
              To the point. I was wondering last night, that it struck me.. it struck me that.. what if all the other major religions are right about Jesus and we Christians got it wrong? What if.. Jesus was actually a man just like the rest of us. A very influental well spoken and well meaning important man, but just that.. a prophet perhaps.. but not the Son of God.
              Yes, this is a very good question. However, what you need to see is how the different religions account for the death and resurrection of Christ. If Christ was just a man, then he could not have risen from the dead. Therefore, they need to show that Christ did not raise from the dead if they are to show that he was not a man.

              Islam has a very interesting position. Rather then saying that Christ died on the cross and did not rise, they say that he did not actually die on the cross. Now, if you read the accounts in the gospels, the Romans were extremely thorough in making sure that Christ was in fact dead. It seems rather hard to believe that the Romans would put Christ on a cross, and not make sure he was dead before they took him off.

              Judaism, as far as I know teaches that the disciples must have stolen the body from the empty tomb. The question this raises is whether the disciples, after abandoning their master, and watching his death, would have had the presence of mind to sneak in and steal the body. Secondly, all the Jews needed to do to disprove the resurrection of Christ, is to find his body, as soon as they knew that the tomb was open. This they did not.
              Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
              "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
              2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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              • #8
                Right.. Hiduism is little more different..


                But my point also is, why would Jesus be the key to salvation, and the rest just gets it wrong? I mean if I was in another church, the church of supercitizen, where we would believe in the same God, a creator, Alpha and Omega, the SC.. I mean the God, except that the key to salvation is that you try to do your best to be a good person, help others when you can, try not to hurt other people and basically do what you want as long as you are not restricting anyone else from doing what they want to do, or hurting people, but helping them. Basically the teaching of Jesus but put on more simple terms, real life implementation of them.

                And then read all the books of these major religions, and then appreciate everyone, and then hoping for co-operation and celebration of it. And that would lead us to doom, the children of SC, because.. we didn't pray that the gatekeeper, Jesus, would be in our hearts? WTF?

                Makes no sense.
                In da butt.
                "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
                THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
                "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I asked this question from Jesus last night but he was too busy to answer. Now it's your turn.
                  Sometimes it takes longer then a day to get an answer to a prayer pekka.
                  Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                  "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                  2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    But my point also is, why would Jesus be the key to salvation, and the rest just gets it wrong? I mean if I was in another church, the church of supercitizen, where we would believe in the same God, a creator, Alpha and Omega, the SC.. I mean the God, except that the key to salvation is that you try to do your best to be a good person, help others when you can, try not to hurt other people and basically do what you want as long as you are not restricting anyone else from doing what they want to do, or hurting people, but helping them. Basically the teaching of Jesus but put on more simple terms, real life implementation of them.
                    Is that any simpler, then to love your neighbour as youself? Look, if there is any such thing as truth, then it must also be true that some people will be right and others will not. Would it make sense to say that all the religions are equally right, when they make different claims?
                    Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                    "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                    2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      "If Christ was just a man, then he could not have risen from the dead. Therefore, they need to show that Christ did not raise from the dead if they are to show that he was not a man."

                      Yes this would be true, but isn't it the Christians duty to show that he did rise from the dead, yes? How have we shown this?

                      His body was gone, but it could have been stolen. Such important matter, I would assume that at least someone would TRY to steal it, no matter what. Just like bodies of important people, some have been stolen, tried to be stolen etc.. Einsteins brains were hijacked, too. Because there's lots of value in it, I'm not talking about value as in money, that if someone stole it, they were thinking we make a lot of money afterwards, they could be his followers, thinking it's too valuable to leave it there but he needs more proper place or what ever..
                      In da butt.
                      "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
                      THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
                      "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Right, what I'm saying is that it doesn't make sense that if I try to live a good life and basically regret my sins and try to do better in future and do it, help some people etc, believe in God, and hope that I would get saved, that I then would be saved. Not that I had to have the opportunity to be born in Christian dominated country so I'd have the choice made for me already.

                        The Jesus thing, it seems so.. like a little nuance that you have to play or you won't win. And that, as a big picture seems so odd, kidn of 'what does it really matter' even. Is it THAT important, and if it is, then why?

                        And what about people before Christ? They didn't know about those stories. Or did Jesus when he left go 'well the time starts... now'?
                        In da butt.
                        "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
                        THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
                        "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Judaism totally PWNS

                          look here is proof



                          I have spread it to every other Civ but Japan, but Tokugawa is a dick man, he won't give me open borders!!!!

                          That's okay, he is weak! I will kill him soon enough.

                          Oh, BTW, ICS is not really dead. It is... but you can still expand if you know what you are doing.

                          This is on Noble difficulty and look how I am dominating. It is all about building certain things at the right time.
                          To us, it is the BEAST.

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                          • #14
                            ALSO, we are playing with human brains. For example when I tried to get an answer to this last night, I tried real hard for a while, closed my eyes and waited for anything to happen, and then felt that my body feels lighter, and my head is kind of tingling, and when I stopped, I felt kind of nice and peaceful, but that's what I feel when I meditate anyway. Had nothing to do with Jesus trying to answer me. It was a sensation, a normal sensation, that I myself created trying to feel something, hear something, sense something. I can do it everytime. So it wasn't an answer, but I think many people would take it as a sign or something, and say, well you know when you get it. Well I don't know so I didn't get it.
                            In da butt.
                            "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
                            THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
                            "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Pekka
                              Yeah but think about it. If no one had an influence on you, and then you'd get all the major religions and their books. You'd read them and assume you'd remember the key parts afterwards. Which one would you choose. I don't believe any of the books can prove much, so it would be matter of .. random pick?!

                              No no no no... I need some arguments here.
                              I don't know how much this contributes to this thread, but this is how I became influenced by Taoism. Both my mom and stepdad were brought up as Christians but after they left home they let everything slide. My mom cracks open a Bible now and then, but they're pretty secular for all intents and purposes. They taught me right from wrong from a secular standpoint (I don't know when I first learned of religion, but it wasn't from them), but beyond that I was left to my own devices. It wasn't until I happened across one of my aunt's books in Seattle, Fritjof Capra's The Tao of Physics, that I came in contact with the philosophy. I had finished reading Stephen Hawking's A Brief History of Time earlier that summer, so my aunt's book really clicked. Since that time my interest in religions and philosophies was increased and I looked into them from an academic standpoint. My view is that to understand them is to have a better (though, still incomplete) understanding of Tao.
                              The cake is NOT a lie. It's so delicious and moist.

                              The Weighted Companion Cube is cheating on you, that slut.

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