Immigrant Riots

[Kuciwalker]

Originally posted by GePap
US "culture" as such does not exist.

So there's no need for protectionism against American cultural exports, right?

[KrazyHorse]

White riot - I wanna riot
White riot - a riot of my own
White riot - I wanna riot
White riot - a riot of my own

Black man gotta lot a problems
But they don't mind throwing a brick
White people go to school
Where they teach you how to be thick

An' everybody's doing
Just what they're told to
An' nobody wants
To go to jail!

All the power's in the hands
Of people rich enough to buy it
While we walk the street
Too chicken to even try it

Everybody's doing
Just what they're told to
Nobody wants
To go to jail!

Are you taking over
or are you taking orders?
Are you going backwards
Or are you going forwards?

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
How are they going to solve the problem of the ghettos, though? Seems like the most logical steps for solving the problem of the ghettos are the steps the French are least likely to take, as they would go against what it means to be "French" in this day and age.

There are several possibilities:

1. Render the counter-culture more harmless by making it mainstream. That's why some culture ministers have tried, but it doesn't look like it works.

2. Dissolve the poor population so that it can be found in small concentration in all neighbourhoods, instead of being concentrated in ghettoes (something the right has shot down immediately on arrival)

3. Take steps against the ordinary racism that stunts the opportunities of a black or an arab (things like harsh punishment to those found guilty of ordinary racism, positive role models on TV etc)

4. Wage a Kulturkampf against the culture of violence, which is very strong among the alienated youth (that can be done through various means, both with the carrot and the stick)

5. Give the perspective that it is possible to make money with honest work, and that there are other ways out than becoming dealer, rapper, or footballer.

6. Punish the worst offenders (and the proud offenders) harshly, so that everybody knows who's the boss. Let the repentant offenders go with a stern warning (and with jail punishment if they make any new mistake), as well as to those who shake in their boots in front of the judge.

[Kuciwalker]

5. Give the perspective that it is possible to make money with honest work, and that there are other ways out than becoming dealer, rapper, or footballer.

Capitalist!

[notyoueither]

2. Dissolve the poor population so that it can be found in small concentration in all neighbourhoods, instead of being concentrated in ghettoes (something the right has shot down immediately on arrival)

They're idiots. One of the best things done over here is require that low income housing be interspersed in wealthier neighbourhoods.

OTOH, here we are talking new neighbourhoods being put up in expanding cities. It would be a tougher nut to crack in fixed spaces where the building is going up and not out.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by notyoueither

2. Dissolve the poor population so that it can be found in small concentration in all neighbourhoods, instead of being concentrated in ghettoes (something the right has shot down immediately on arrival)

They're idiots. One of the best things done over here is require that low income housing be interspersed in wealthier neighbourhoods.

Yes, they are. But it comes from the fact that their voters are idiots.

I live in a seriously right-wing cluster of cities. In all neighbour cities but mine, the right-wing mayor has promised, during the camaign, the city would sooner pay a fine rather than build social housing (the left had passed a law that forced such cities to build social housing, and to pay a fine if they didn't - the right shot down that law). Yet, the stigma about crime isn't quite so obvious when the social housings aren't concentrated, and the stigma about ugliness is now completely false (the monstrosities were built in the 71ies - it is now forbidden to build those inhuman buildings, and recent social housings look similar to high-end apartment complexes from the outside)

That's because there is a huge stigma against social housing, which is thought of as ridden with crime, and as horribly ugly. For NIMBY voters, it is unacceptable to deface their nice little personal-house neighborhoods with such "monstrosities".

When the right wing government came to power, it was obvious it'd satisfy its mayors.

[lightblue]

I am surprised that certain of these areas haven't had a curfew called yet.

[Drake Tungsten]

Originally posted by Spiffor
There are several possibilities:

The problem I see with these possibilities is that none of them address the fundamental economic issues that seem to play such a large role in the discontent of the ghettos. I mean, will the youth in the ghettos really believe this...

5. Give the perspective that it is possible to make money with honest work, and that there are other ways out than becoming dealer, rapper, or footballer.

... if unemployment remains such a problem?

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
The problem I see with these possibilities is that none of them address the fundamental economic issues that seem to play such a large role in the discontent of the ghettos. I mean, will the youth in the ghettos really believe this [...] if unemployment remains such a problem?

I actually don't think unemployment is the overwhelming reason for the problem as it is expressed in the ghettoes. The Socialists used to believe it, and the unemployment situation of the disaffected youth became significantly better under their rule. Yet, the crime problem didn't really improve. Many (like the journalist of the column you've linked to) even thought things had worsened.

Besides, if we look at who is committing the violent acts these days, we see many of them are very young, between 12 and 16 (to be accurate, the police also reports that there are rioters up to 30, but they are surprised by how many teens are in).

These young guys aren't directly confronted to unemployment problems yet.

[Drake Tungsten]

That's a good point. The violent youth may have been influenced by older members of the community who were radicalized in part by the unemployment situation, but I really don't know. At any rate, these types of destructive cultures eventually take on a life of their own, so I doubt there's any easy solution to the problem at this point, economic or otherwise.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Immigration is not a right.

Actually it is. It's in the UN charter of human rights. The U.S. signed it.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara

Originally posted by Oerdin
Immigration is not a right.

Actually it is. It's in the UN charter of human rights. The U.S. signed it.

And what article would that be that grants this ?

[Datajack Franit]

Immigration rights and islamic riots are different things

[Spiffor]

Especially when you consider that what's happening in France is not Islamic riots.

The French muslim community is calling for a calmer situation. And the observant Muslims in the ghettoes tend to have a much less violent behaviour than the non-observants in everyday life.

[Datajack Franit]

Of course the observant muslims tend to prefer exploding train and subway stations rather than parked cars