Tory leadership battle (plus highly biased guide to it!)

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

That's just the start of it. He wants to reintroduce National Service, in the form of indentured labour.

Did I say "indentured labour"? Sorry. I meant to type something along these lines....

Despite his dislike of top-down initiatives, Mr Cameron's plan for restoring respect in society is to reintroduce a form of civilian national service, with all teenagers expected to do voluntary work in the community when they leave school.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,17129-1834751,00.html

Has the word "voluntary" undergone some radical change of definition?

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Hilarious. He also wants to encourage more stay-at-home parenting, with comments like "There is no more important job in our society than raising children".

He went to boarding school, you know. This is like shooting fish in a barrel.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Oh, and he's got a son called Ivan. Presumably if he has three more they'll be named Benito, Ghengis and Adolf.

[Sandman]

In these more open and less deferential times, we'll never achieve a decent society with top-down government initiatives.

One assumes that society was decent when times were less open and more deferential.

How long before he starts mentioning breeding and birthright?

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Toby Rowe
That is the exact point- Unless they find something on you the the entire stop and search is utterly pointless- It's taken up both my time and theirs.

If it is actually someone they are suspicious of- drugs and guns in Brixton, in that order; just, at least they'll actually get the REAL name and REAL address of the suspected street dealer they wanna get, assuming anti-fraud measures on the card are upto scratch, unlike mainland Europe cards from what you all say above.

On the cost to us of the card: Like everyone else (I hope) I will refuse to pay money in exchange for my identity as I already exist and therefor have no need to prove my existance.

Toby

That's an utterly ridiculous line of thought. If they find something on you then it's a fair cop, if not, why on earth would the police want your information? So they can harrass people they don't like the look of and know how to find them, their home, etc? The logic just doesn't follow...

[Toby Rowe]

Look mate,

In Brixton's Coldharbour Lane they know exactly who's dealing, but not who have the Uzi's, with hand-taped lazer sights attached. If they try to nick them all, they'll be carnage- Get the address, get 'em at home.

Didn't you read my post correctly.

I dunno where you live but I doubt it's Inner South London.

I just wish idiots in the shires would stop preaching about rights in comfy safe homes and towns whilst we that have to live along nutters and violent bastards have no voice.

I managed to leave my last estate 2 years ago, on my last week 5 crack-houses were busted just in my block alone of 240 flats. If I didn't see armed police on the estate every couple of weeks I wondered if the Police had finally cracked the Tulse Hill Estate, alas I was always wrong.


On schooling- When I went to school the teachers has both authority and discipline methods, now a whole decade of mums and dads have gone through the schooling system without any, so that knowledge of respect wasn't passed on to their nippers.

As I got to A levels, it became "Mr Holland" etc, so it was changing in 1981.

Most kids in modern society spend more time with teachers than with either parent, so if they can't show them wrong from right, the the UK has had it for a long time on societal issues.

Toby

[Drogue]

Actually, IIRC Provost lives in outer South London, but you're close!

I'm sick of people in crime deprived areas thinking these laws only apply to them. Stop and search laws apply everywhere - if they could make them just Brixton, I'd have no problem. But they can't, and so if we don't want them in our areas, we have a right to our voice as much as you do.

I'm actually for stop and search, but simply because I think an officer of the law should be allowed to remove weapons and illegal artifacts from you if they suspect you may be carrying.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

I just wish idiots in the shires would stop preaching about rights in comfy safe homes and towns whilst we that have to live along nutters and violent bastards have no voice.

Parochial bull****.

[Solly]

If Laz doesn't like Cameron, definitely shows he is a good contender

[Drogue]

Cameron is certainly the best of those left in. I'd have liked to see Clarke contest the next election and then see Cameron take over - gives Clarke a shot to see if he is electable and gives Cameron a bit more than 4 years parliamentary experience before leading the opposition. I have nothing against him being that young, but I think he's too inexperienced to be PM. After 4 years in a senior shadow cabinet position he'd be a great choice though, IMHO.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Park Avenue
If Laz doesn't like Cameron, definitely shows he is a good contender

If Spinky likes him it shows he's a colossal ****er.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

So, does anyone agree that National Service is a good thing?

[Drogue]

National service as in army, no. National service as in community work, probably not, but I can understand the possible use of it. 15 year olds have 2 weeks work experience instead of school. I can imagine having a week of community work, or some such, around that time could also be useful.

Or better yet, do the IB. That has compulsory community work as part of it

[Provost Harrison]

Me The nation should be servicing me all the time

[Toby Rowe]

Drogue and the other,

As they say, living is seeing, even if the other lives in Shirley or Croydon.

I bet a £100 that the other has never been to Brixton, or any other area's with a problem, your reply was interesting.

If the Police are given the one tool they need- Your identity they will stop hassling people going about their daily business, not that they do it that much these days anyway.

Last time I got stopped was the plain clothes copper that stands behind Passport control at the Airport- I let rip at him and he put his little book away that should have now contained my address, oh, and the **** behind control at Waterloo after visiting a French mate.

The Police are how we want them to be, never the other way, and they've become better since I stopped being searched pointlessly as a punk, and got older, abuse of stop and search powers is no longer a byline for the word abuse.

Thanks drogue for remaining polite.

Out of the Tories, David, David and Tony Blair, which one would you vote for? I'm still minded to go Liberal at the next election, but they (apart from the ID card) want to tax industry that pollutes- those that provide jobs that are now going to China, pollution is an issue-I'd rather put the Sulphur-scrubbers on the stacks than close them down.

Last year China built more Coal-fired power stations with a capacity greater than the entire UK national grid at peak times. Britain (Europe) has one single clean coal power station, Yank firms are bidding for it (Is it Drax?) right now, as they bid, the fact remains most of our coal is high quality, and this is the cleanest plant in Europe.

How do I square that circle?- I want both good governance by government along with consent- something always has to give to "square a circle"", this government has begun that question, the ID card is merely the debate.

If the Government pulled it's socks up, It'd use referendums more often- don't care? don't vote.- I rembember the Tories stated that "Referendums were only for the Swiss" as they created pivate firms often-yeah, and they knew they'd lose- on water the nation was 94% against, so must have had a lot of pissed of Tories, still the Government didnt care. (Privatisation of both Water and the Railways springs to mind, as it's MY nation, MY water, MY Railway, not a governments.

I dunno, I've really rambled, but I used to love Labour, alas they they have become Conservative now, but I just don't wanna vote Liberal as they still have stupid policies, other than them, I now have no voice, and left and right parties don't appeal either, so in dinner party terms-not: I'm ****ed

Toby