Tory leadership battle (plus highly biased guide to it!)

[Provost Harrison]

Oh dear...

[Toby Rowe]

I can seriously say that as a left-wing Labour voter, who is throughly pissed of with both Blair and Brown, I might have actually voted Tory in my life come the next election if Clark became leader.

He WAS the last one-nation Tory left in Britain, and with his departure, so goes that entire branch of that party.

The Conservative Party is soooooo busy trying to deny that we ARE European, they fail to make any impact on the population on any other issue.

I personally don't trust the Tories on either Defence or Policing, as both were hugely cut in the 20 years, whilst the Health Service is now an open issue, whilst under Blair management.

Although the Army is now at it's lowest level ever and has had to disband certain specialisations and allow civil structures to take over like hospitals and some Military Police jobs.

I'm thinkin Liberal at the next election, but I want an ID card- they are opposing it on idealogy, whilst I live in reality-which is why I want it. (I live in London, not Westminster)

Toby

[Cort Haus]

I don't see how supporting ID cards is a proof of 'living in reality'.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Toby Rowe
but I want an ID card- they are opposing it on idealogy, whilst I live in reality-which is why I want it. (I live in London, not Westminster)

I live in London too- and I oppose I.D. cards on principle, and because I.D. cards didn't stop terrorism in West Germany, France, Italy, Spain, Morocco or elsewhere- and how exactly this current government proposes to show how an I.D. card would stop terrorism is beyond me- and them too, on the evidence so far.

But given the amount of lies, obfuscation and deception spewed out by what laughably calls itself a Labour government, over subjects as diverse as student grants, the health service and the war in Iraq, I won't be expecting any kind of cogent, coherent explanation of why it's necessary to have the public of the United Kingdom pay for the privilege of having to identify themselves on demand to government agents without those agents giving just cause.

[Sandman]

All the London bombers would have had ID cards, being British citizens...

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Sandman
All the London bombers would have had ID cards, being British citizens...

As did the Baader Meinhof bombers, the bombers of the Red Brigades, the neofascists who blew up Bologna railway station, Spanish Basque bombers, French leftists...


I.D. cards were no obvious deterrent to terrorism in the 1970s or 1980s in European countries where terrorist bombings and murders took place.

[Solly]

Originally posted by Sandman
All the London bombers would have had ID cards, being British citizens...

Stricter immigration controls would have prevented the bombings, though.

Cameron is a very good choice. A natural successor to Blair

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Park Avenue


Stricter immigration controls would have prevented the bombings, though.

Of course they would, dear. Just like the way that strict immigration controls prevented German bombers setting off bombs in West Germany, or Spanish bombers setting off bombs in Spain, or white British bombers setting off bombs in the United Kingdom.


And perhaps a Stalinist regime would be a good idea too, where personal liberties are all restricted by the state....

[Solly]

white British bombers setting off bombs in the United Kingdom

Explain.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Park Avenue
Stricter immigration controls would have prevented the bombings, though.

How? The 7/7 bombers were British.

[Cort Haus]

Originally posted by Park Avenue


Explain.

The '99 nail-bomber.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Park Avenue


Explain.

Ah. A nationalist who hasn't heard of the United Kingdom- one of whose constituent parts is Northern Ireland.


Not an area of the U.K. particularly noted for its dark-skinned population, or huge number of immigrants.


I do seem to recall though that some of its inhabitants, native born and fair of skin, have a propensity for blowing up people and murdering each other.

[Solly]

"white British bombers setting off bombs in the United Kingdom"

"Ah. A nationalist who hasn't heard of the United Kingdom- one of whose constituent parts is Northern Ireland."

The UK is not the same as Britain (ie, British).

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Park Avenue

The UK is not the same as Britain (ie, British).

And yet the inhabitants of Northern Ireland, in the United Kingdom, are possessors of BRITISH passports and many consider themselves to be BRITISH- the Protestant ones, certainly.



Or are you saying that the Ulster Unionists consider themselves to be Irish ?

[Solly]

They are actually holders of "United Kingdom of Great Britain and Nothern Ireland" passports.