Tory leadership battle (plus highly biased guide to it!)

[MikeH]

In the UK it has a totally different resonance to the US I think. I certainly didn't relate the two.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

just to add... other than that Tories could not have elected a better leader, and this one will give Gordon a run for his money ... dependable how Labour does in next 3 years he might even win it.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Originally posted by MikeH
In the UK it has a totally different resonance to the US I think. I certainly didn't relate the two.

well I guess good for him, but me reading the net more than regular newspapers "compassionate conservativism" = "Mr Bush wannabe theocracy in US" At least this is how he refers to his policies...

to use exactly the same phrase well, I guess he is either reckles, or ignores the existance of American version "compassionate conservativism"...

[MikeH]

Basically it does mean the same thing ie.

Make sure life is nice for the good middle class and rich white folks by screwing over the poor but pretend that we're 'improving the economy' so the poor people we're screwing can become rich.

[Saras]

Originally posted by MikeH
<...>we're 'improving the economy' so the poor people <...> can become rich.

Fishing net
fish

[MikeH]

No idea what you mean.

Thinking about it the compassionate bit is just a sweetner/spin to make the unpleasantness of conservatism seem less unpleasant isn't it. So I guess it is the same as the US version.

[Saras]

Britain (well, every country for that matter) needs more upward class mobility. Giving ppl fishing nets instead of fish, so to speak, is good in my book. Problem is, how is the current labour different, i.e., what actual steps the tories take that labour did not?

[MikeH]

Ah right. Yes. I totally agree in that principle.

The Tories haven't actually really announced any policies so it's hard to see what they'd recommend. Normally they seem to suggest that lower taxation and cutting services is going to be the answer but that seems to me to have the opposite effect.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

the only long term solution is of course education, this is the enabler for people to do more out of the resources available to them. This should be the cornerstone, and as it looks like Blair has that on the agenda, but now how he is going to go about it, is a different question.

Regardless the way Labour handled fiscal and social issues over past 7 years has been very good, the only insane rethoric IMO are still the house prices that are going to sink the whole economy once they tumble (if they do that is)... but overall for waht is worth this governmet did better than any other in the world over its period of "rule"... now going forward and creating upward mobility... well it is here in a sense, it is more about the ability of the society to address the social groups which find it "inadequate" to get on the ladder and get on with it so to speak (education, etc) and to make the whole system more robust and to serve the people of the country better. + a genunie net for those individual cases that need specific help. Again the help should be, you get the fish, as long as you accept to learn how to fish. No "free" fish without learning how to fish so to speak, and after the learning stops the last bit of care should be making sure that the person gets a job.

At the end of it all it would be better to have thousands of unemployeed people with education than unemployed hopeless cases like now ... (at least than you could push them into work or into studying some more much easier)

That will in time change the mentality of those who are at the bottom... but well we will see what the new Tories bring on the table.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

just to go back to Labour vs Tory question... the Labour big minus is of course the opportunism and recklesness of its government connected to Iraq... however if the Tories were in their position they would do even worse (except for Kenneth Clark I guess) and they officially supported this suckup to US.

Other than that I don't think anyone can fault Labour too much, but perhaps now after so long in government they are beginning to show weaknesses and openings to the alternatives.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Originally posted by Drake Tungsten
So what's the dirt on this Cameron fellow?

He's related to the Queen, being descended from one of William IV's better-known bastards. He's a public schoolboy, so has almost certainly participated in non-consensual homo-erotic activities. He's probably taken cocaine. His wife used to knock around with the rapper Tricky and has tattoos. He looks slightly retarded. He's an urban cyclist. He wants to re-introduce National Service.

[Dauphin]

Originally posted by Saras
Britain (well, every country for that matter) needs more upward class mobility. Giving ppl fishing nets instead of fish, so to speak, is good in my book. Problem is, how is the current labour different, i.e., what actual steps the tories take that labour did not?

Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Originally posted by Dauphin


Give a man a fire and he's warm for a day, but set him on fire and he's warm for the rest of his life.

give the man a fish, shoot him, give him to the fishes and you will have more fish

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Originally posted by Lazarus and the Gimp


He wants to re-introduce National Service.

Killer failure... I am sure he will rethink that one

[MOBIUS]

Big tough Toby thinks he's down with the hood cos he lives in inner city South London...

Big deal. You're still talking crap.

ID cards are useless, and I particularly liked his unique take, he wants them but refuses to pay for them - are they going to magically appear on trees or something?

So says a 'veteran' of Loughborough Junction and New Cross Gate or 8 years.