"We are now satisfied that he was not connected with the incidents"

[Donegeal]

Okay Aggie and Horsie, fine, you don't like it. Tell us how you two would insure the safety of the general population. Educate the Moderates, the Conservatives and the Right wingers as to just excatly how order and safety can be maintained.

Give me a better mousetrap.

[Asher]

Aggie and Horsie have taken what's called the easy position.

When you don't want to think, it's easier to reflect in hindsight and say "he was killed when he was not a bomber, so what they did was wrong".

It's too much of a moral dilemma for them to actually think about the tradeoffs that need to be made by the cops in realtime.

[Bereta_Eder]

Originally posted by Donegeal
Okay Aggie and Horsie, fine, you don't like it. Tell us how you two would insure the safety of the general population. Educate the Moderates, the Conservatives and the Right wingers as to just excatly how order and safety can be maintained.

Oh there's no way now.

[Asher]

And paiktis22 is an insecure Greek troll.

[Bereta_Eder]

and asher is a dumb tormented soul

[lord of the mark]

'London Mayor Ken Livingstone described Mr Menezes as a "victim of the terrorist attacks".

He said: "Consider the choice that faced police officers at Stockwell last Friday - and be glad you did not have to take it." '


Once again I find myself in complete agreement with "red" Ken.

[Bereta_Eder]

if by terrorist attacks he meant iraq, I'm completely in agreement.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse


That's lame. I give it 2 out of 10.

People's reactions to police are hard wired by their background and circumstances in my opinion.

I wasn't surprised to learn he was from Brazil.

He could have been running for any number of reasons, like visa problems, unpaid fines etc.

I imagine the tube would be a common escape route for petty thieves etc.

This shoot to kill policy is clearly unsafe.

Yes, it's unsafe for suicide bombers and anyone who has lived in the United Kingdom long enough to understand the phrase 'Stop! Armed police!' but not long enough to appreciate then that halting is a good idea.

" Brazilian media reported that Menezes was an electrician who had been legally living and working in England for the past three years. He originally came from the small city of Gonzaga, some 500 miles northeast of Sao Paulo in the state of Minas Gerais.

"He spoke English very well, and had permission to study and work there," Menezes' cousin Maria Alves told the O Globo Online Web site from her home in Sao Paulo. "


Armed police don't routinely halt people for unpaid parking fines or visa bills two weeks or even two years after four suicide bombings.

His family apprently lives on a farm in Brazil, so perhaps the word you're looking for is fazenda rather than favela.


Could be just as well you're not going to Brazil then- as a trip to the favela might have unexpected hidden consequences for you if you had confused it with a coffee fazenda.

fazenda
noun

fazendas
1. Especially in Brazil: a large estate, plantation or cattle ranch.

Derivative: fazendeiro
noun

Someone who owns or runs such a property.
Etymology: 19c: Portuguese, same as Spanish hacienda, from Latin facienda things to be done.


Main Entry: fa·ve·la
Variant(s): also fa·vel·la /f&-'ve-l&/
Function: noun

Etymology: Brazilian Portuguese favela, perhaps from Favela, hill outside Rio de Janeiro

: a settlement of jerry-built shacks lying on the outskirts of a Brazilian city


I give the 'Brazilian slum dweller fear of police excuse' 0.001 out of 10.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Agathon



Then again, this was Britain, so the police were probably just incompetent idiots much like the rest of British society. Is there something in the water there that prevents any form of efficient organization?

Gosh- so much for one world communism. The Internationale really does unite the human race, doesn't it ?


Feelin' the love, Comrade Aggie, feelin' the love.

[Gibsie]

Very funny molly, except that those of us who've said he lived in a favela were referencing another news story that said he moved to Sao Paulo when he was 14. Don't chastise us for your own ignorance

"Okay Aggie and Horsie, fine, you don't like it. Tell us how you two would insure the safety of the general population."

My own take: if armed police are trailing someone that they would consider a terrorist attack were they to run away after being challenged, challenge them BEFORE the situation gets to the point where lethal force is necessary. i.e. BEFORE they get to a hot terrorist target, certainly BEFORE they get to the second one!

Because even if you think Agathon is full of crap, you can't ignore the simple fact that humans have an in-built "fight or flight" mentality that will grip them at least some of the time when faced with guns pointed in their direction. Of course, you can also take the Asher approach and sneer when such people get killed that it's natural selection at work, move on and wait for the next tragedy/ Darwinism to occur.

[Gibsie]

Oh yes, and the guy had an expired visa, apaprently, which explains (but not excuses) why he ran away. Of course, if the police had done their jobs they would have already known this before they put five bullets in their brain, but who are we to judge them?

[Asher]

Are we sure the cops weren't overzealous immigration officials?

Of course, you can also take the Asher approach and sneer when such people get killed that it's natural selection at work, move on and wait for the next tragedy/ Darwinism to occur.

Running from cops with guns who ordered you to stop onto a subway a day after they were bombed -- damn straight, that's Darwinism.

[Patroklos]

Of course, if the police had done their jobs they would have already known this before they put five bullets in their brain, but who are we to judge them?

Because god knows life is just like a computer game, I click the "investigation" button and instantly know everything about him.

[Wiglaf]

Originally posted by Asher
Aggie and Horsie have taken what's called the easy position.

When you don't want to think, it's easier to reflect in hindsight and say "he was killed when he was not a bomber, so what they did was wrong".

It's too much of a moral dilemma for them to actually think about the tradeoffs that need to be made by the cops in realtime.

At least admit they made a mistake by stopping him in the underground. Why let him on a bus and on the streets if he's got a coat in the summer?

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/07/25/london.tube/index.html?section=cnn_topstories

On Sunday Pereira, 28, re-enacted Menezes' final movements, leaving his flat in south London and taking a bus to Stockwell Underground station, where the shooting occurred on Friday.

"I want to show the people the police could have stopped him before he took the bus," said Pereira.

"They killed him because they had to show off. If they were so afraid of a bomb why did they let him get on the bus?"

The police picked the worst possible place for this arrest. More important, by doing so, they show that they didn't think he was going to detonate a bomb. So why assault him with armed plainclothes police after he uses the bus system?

[Gibsie]

AH already made the ultimate funny about ticket inspectors being overly harsh these days, we aint gonna top that

Unfortunately laughing about it and just saying, "That's Darwinism!" does not really go any way towards answering how tragedies like this can be stopped in future.

But hey, in the name of Darwinism, why don't we give ALL police guns, and tell them to randomly point their guns at random people? Whites as well as foreigners? Sure there'd be a few thousand idiots that'd think they can run away, but they'd be dealth with and soon we'd soon have the most intelligent - if pacified - civilization in ze world!