"We are now satisfied that he was not connected with the incidents"

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Originally posted by notyoueither


Which cops are those?

Around here they are trained to shoot for centre of body mass.

You're right. Whenever a cop pulls a trigger, someone dies.

Has anyone considered that, since it was a crowded station, when the cops yelled "police!", the suspect thought someone else was about to blow the place up? Especially given recent events? I would have run too.

Why would he assume the police were talking to him, considering that he was innocent?

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn


You're right. Whenever a cop pulls a trigger, someone dies.

Has anyone considered that, since it was a crowded station, when the cops yelled "police!", the suspect thought someone else was about to blow the place up? Especially given recent events? I would have run too.

Why would he assume the police were talking to him, considering that he was innocent?

That is really the most pure BS that I have seen here.

Police waepons isn't supposed to kill people - they are to stop people from what they are doing.

If this person really thought that there was a bomb threat, then please tell me why he ran away from the police and into a place where the danger was higher.

If he just had done as the police had asked, he would have been alive today.

[Kuciwalker]

Because of course this entire argument ran through the police's heads just in the few seconds it took hindsight is 20-20

[JimmyCracksCorn]

Originally posted by BlackCat


That is really the most pure BS that I have seen here.

Police waepons isn't supposed to kill people - they are to stop people from what they are doing.

If this person really thought that there was a bomb threat, then please tell me why he ran away from the police and into a place where the danger was higher.

If he just had done as the police had asked, he would have been alive today.

But why would he assume the police were addressing him since... he didn't have a bomb?

The police messed up. It happens.

[Gibsie]

I think it's safe to say from the description of the dead guy's actions that he knew the police were after him...

[Kaak]

Well done to the Police. They did what they had to do given the information they had. There is nothing tragic about this.

[Asher]

Originally posted by notyoueither
Which cops are those?

Around here they are trained to shoot for centre of body mass.

The cops were told, specifically, that to take out suicide bombers you aim for and shoot for the head -- NOT the torso. Explosive belts tend to go around the torso, and shooting explosives with bullets may not be the smartest thing to do when trying to prevent an explosion.

[Asher]

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn
You're right. Whenever a cop pulls a trigger, someone dies.

Has anyone considered that, since it was a crowded station, when the cops yelled "police!", the suspect thought someone else was about to blow the place up? Especially given recent events? I would have run too.

Wait a second -- when someone yells "POLICE" in London, after 8 different bombs went off on their public transit system -- your first instinct would be to run in the station, jump turnstiles, and try to get on the train?

[Asher]

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn
But why would he assume the police were addressing him since... he didn't have a bomb?

The police messed up. It happens.

In the witness reports, he was said to look back at the police who had all raised their guns and were presumably looking right at him and shouting at him.

He then ran further into the station, jumped turnstiles, and tried to get ON the train.

The police didn't mess up here, the guy clearly messed up. The police acted appropriately given what they knew, and how the knob was acting.

His stupidity got himself killed. Similarly, a kid pulling a fake gun on a cop may just get him killed.

When police feel they are threatened, or the public is threatened, they should act on it. Period. All of this retrospective bull**** is irrelevant in their actions. They can only act on what they know at the time, none of this crap that comes up days later.

[Wiglaf]

First of all, only one witness said he vaulted over the barrier. No police report, BBC or CNN report confirms that. All of this is based on a lot of speculation.

The police acted appropriately given what they knew

This is the only statement I can really take issue with. If you suspect he's a bomber, you stop him out of his house, not in the middle of the subway. It's that simple. Who knows why he ran - maybe he was a pot dealer? If you're the police, you find that out in a secure environment.

[Lefty Scaevola]

"The man was identified by police as Jean Charles de Menezes, a 27-year-old Brazilian, described by officers as an electrician on his way to work." Some good citizen is going to be angry about not getting his electirc plug fixed.

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Wiglaf
- maybe he was a pot dealer?.

If he was that, he would know that the most stupid thing he could do would be runing into a subway train.

[Donegeal]

Originally posted by JimmyCracksCorn
And why couldn't they shoot him in the leg or shoulder? Most cops are trained to shoot to maim, not kill.

Guns are considered leathal force, not less than leathal. If a cop draws his gun, he feels the situation has escalated to the point where lethal force may be warranted.

Cops are trained to kill with their handguns. That is why they carry other weapons (Battons, TAZER, pepper spray, etc).

Personally, I do have a bit of an issue with them killing a subject that was in custody, but that is because I haven't had 8 bombs go off in my jurisdiction in two weeks. Perhaps I'd feel different in that circumstance. And, thinking about it, and listening to Asher's (of all people) arguements, I'd probably say it was justified.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by Asher

The cops were told, specifically, that to take out suicide bombers you aim for and shoot for the head -- NOT the torso. Explosive belts tend to go around the torso, and shooting explosives with bullets may not be the smartest thing to do when trying to prevent an explosion.

Of course. However they are trained to shoot for centre of mass, and that trying to wound by taking out a limb is likely to get them (and others) killed because it is too easy to miss.

A head shot with a pistol at any distance is far from certain. On a crowded street, or station, you are liable to kill a bystander.

As long as this poor fellow was running, the safest thing to do was chase him. Once they caught up with him, given what they knew at the time, the safest thing to do was put a bullet in his head.

That doesn't stop me from feeling bad for the guy and his family. His death should have been unnecessary. However, he was the one in a position to control the necessity and he blew it. I can't blame the British police for it even though I am quite sure that the issue of the five shots may raise some eyebrows internally.

[Kaak]

not to point out the obvious, but if you shoot a suicide bomber in the leg, he would still be able to detonate the bomb