Secession Thread II - Canadian version: Canada, "the Argentina of the 21st century"

[Ben Kenobi]

Excluding immigration and interprovincial migration, Canada is growing at about 34k a year, 47% of which is in Alberta alone. That's not including the fact that 58% of all those who leave their home province, end up in Alberta.

[joncha]

Your point?

Immigration

[Max Webster]

Originally posted by Asher
Guaranteed stable supply of oil and natural gas? Alberta's natural gas in particular supplies almost all of the western US.

Its gets a stable supply of oil and natural from Alberta now. So the points still stands why would the US want Alberta.

[Az]

Immigration

As an immigrant I can tell you that immigration entails a lot of problems, and I am not sure what steps does your country make to ameliorate them.

[Max Webster]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
The Canadian economy is slowly collapsing as our population starts to decrease. Vast swathes, including my hometown are still trying to recover, while the young people leave in droves.

Well your hometown from what I recall is connected to lumber industry. Its seems like those Yanks that you love so much have been screwing us around in that area too. Would that have anything do with a loss of jobs in the industry.

Also alot of young people do not want blue collar jobs. They would rather have a cushy white collar jobs in a nice clean air conditoned office or cubicle. So they go get the big university education and head of to the city or area where all the white collar jobs are.

Not many wants to stick in their hometown and fix peoples toilets, cars etc or sling lumber in some lumber mill.

[Az]

and let us all remind ourselves as to why people don't want blue collar jobs.

[Max Webster]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
The United States is going to be far better off than Canada,

Does anybody know how the US is going to pay off its massive debt. They where doing quite well economically until Bush got in there.
Somebody telling the US is going to do well makes me choke with skeptism.

[Ben Kenobi]

Well your hometown from what I recall is connected to lumber industry. Its seems like those Yanks that you love so much have been screwing us around in that area too. Would that have anything do with a loss of jobs in the industry.

Also alot of young people do not want blue collar jobs. They would rather have a cushy white collar jobs in a nice clean air conditoned office or cubicle. So they go get the big university education and head of to the city or area where all the white collar jobs are.

Yes, that has something to do with the job losses, but my question is this. If Canada is willing to push the US with respect to opening up the border to Canadian beef, why not lumber? The biggest reason I can think of is that it isn't worth any votes to the Liberal party.

And you are right about many of the folks not wanted a blue collar job, but if you go to university, then you should expect to have a decent job. The problem is that the university graduates do not have any options open for them in my hometown, so they all leave.

Secondly, even the blue collar jobs are hurting, because the young people who are qualified, have less experience then the older folks who are qualified. Everything is hurting in my hometown, other than retail, and the univerisity.

[Ben Kenobi]

Does anybody know how the US is going to pay off its massive debt. They where doing quite well economically until Bush got in there.

Somebody telling the US is going to do well makes me choke with skeptism.

The two are tied. When Canada does 80 percent of our trade with the US, how the US does, effects Canada.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben would you also call pretty much all of Europe "slowly collapsing"?

Look for yourself. Looking at all the European countries with more than 10 million population, they are in decline even accounting for immigration. I figure they need about 200 thousand every year to make up for the shortfall.

Here's the individual breakdowns. Ireland, Iceland, Norway and Albania are not included, since they are too small to have an appreciable effect on the overall numbers.

[Ben Kenobi]

GERMANY

Births 706k
Deaths 853k
Immigration-154K

Germany is in absolute decline. With immigration, they have an increase of 7k.

http://www.destatis.de/basis/e/bevoe/bevoetab1.htm

http://www.destatis.de/basis/e/bevoe/bevoetab6.htm

UK

Births 651K
Deaths 615K
Immigration-131K

UK is not yet in absolute decline, and is growing at a rate of 167K people a year

FRANCE

Births 737K
Deaths 550K
Immigration 40K

France is not in absolute decline, and grows at 227K people/year

ITALY

Births 516K
Deaths 598K
Immigration 120K

Italy is in absolute decline, and immigration produces a growth of 38k a year

RUSSIA

1405K births
2082K deaths
147K immigration

Russia is in absolute and net decline of -530K a year.

POLAND

Births 486K
Deaths 389K
Immigration -19K

Poland is not in absolute decline, even with negative immigration, grows at 78K a year

GREECE

Births 103K
Deaths 108K
Immigration 25K

Greece is in absolute decline, and with immigration grows at 20K year

HUNGARY

Births 98K
Deaths 131K
Immigration 9K

Hungary is in absolute decline, and net decline of 24K a year.

SPAIN

Births 407K
Deaths 389K
Immigration 40K

Spain is not in absolute decline and grows at 58K a year

NETHERLANDS

Births 182K
Deaths 143K
Immigration 46K

Netherlands growth of 85K a year

BELGIUM

Births 109K
Deaths 106K
Immigration 12K

Belgium is not yet in absolute decline, and grows at 15K a year.

ROMANIA

Births 289K
Deaths 262K
Immigration -3K

Romania is in absolute decline and net decline of 40K a year

UKRAINE

Births 479K
Deaths 779K
Immigration -18K

Ukraine is in absolute decline and net decline of -282K a year

CZECH REPUBLIC

Births 93K
Deaths 108K
Immigration 1K

Czech Republic is in absolute decline, and net decline of 14K a year

SERBIA

Births 131K
Deaths 114K
Immigration -15K

Serbia is not in absolute decline, and has a growth to 2K a year.

PORTUGAL

Births 114K
Deaths 110K
Immigration 37K

Portugal is not yet in absolute decline, but is gaining 41K a year.

BELARUS

Births 112K
Deaths 146K
Immigration 25K

Belarus is in absolute and net decline, losing 9K people every year

IRELAND

Births 58K
Deaths 32K
Immigration 4K

Ireland is growing by 43K a year

SWEDEN

Births 93K
Deaths 93K
Immigration 15K

Sweden is in absolute decline, but growing through immigration at 15K a year

[Max Webster]

Well then maybe all us polytubbies should break free of our computers and get out there and start doing some major breeding.

[el freako]

Ben where did you get that data from, especially the data for countries other than Germany?

It certainly doesn't tally with the data I have (from the OECD) which, for instance, shows Spain's population growing by 600,000 to 700,000 a year since 2002 (due to a large number of Latin American immigrants)

[Ben Kenobi]

I got lazy and took it from here: http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/...k/geos/ca.html

Rather than searching for the more detailed government publications.

[Ben Kenobi]

600-700k a year is way out there. The numbers for the CIA corroborate well with the German stats, el freako.