What is the best science fiction book, ever?

[Carolus Rex]

Rereading the thread I realise a lot of people here set science fiction = space flight and planets...

Just like space opera is considered a subgenre of sci-fi, so is, say, alternate history...

There are lots of good stories out there speculating about what would have happened if historical events had had different outcomes (the spanish armada defeats Francis Drake for example)... They need not be set in space (or even in the future!) to be considered sci-fi IMHO...

Carolus

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Carolus Rex
Rereading the thread I realise a lot of people here set science fiction = space flight and planets...

Just like space opera is considered a subgenre of sci-fi, so is, say, alternate history...

There are lots of good stories out there speculating about what would have happened if historical events had had different outcomes (the spanish armada defeats Francis Drake for example)... They need not be set in space (or even in the future!) to be considered sci-fi IMHO...

Carolus

So EU2 is all one big Sci Fi game?

[molly bloom]

I love good alternate history novels- one of my favourite is 'Pavane' by Keith Roberts, set in an England (and world) where the Protestant Reformation fails.

He was a superb writer- not just the imagination, but his prose too.


Turtledove's early 'Agent of Byzantium' stories (set in a world where Mohammed converted to Orthodox Christianity) are also good, but show the traits that are later going to become so very noticeable and irritating in his later work.

I'd also recommend 'The Moscow Option' by David Downing and two that touch on alternate Americas- Harry Harrison's 'A Transatlantic Tunnel, Hurrah !' and Ward Moore's 'Bring The Jubilee' that have to do with a failed American Revolution and a Confederate victory respectively.

[JohnT]

I love good alternate history novels- one of my favourite is 'Pavane' by Keith Roberts, set in an England (and world) where the Protestant Reformation fails.

Now, being interested in early-modern history, I read that one. Twice. Thought it was the most languid prose I've ever written and still haven't the slightest idea as to what, if anything, happened.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by JohnT

I love good alternate history novels- one of my favourite is 'Pavane' by Keith Roberts, set in an England (and world) where the Protestant Reformation fails.

Thought it was the most languid prose I've ever written and still haven't the slightest idea as to what, if anything, happened.

More languid than late period Henry James ?

Or Proust ? Are you sure ?

[JohnT]

There's languid and then there's comatose, Molly.

[DarkCloud]

Moses Presley

Gormenghast trilogy: I still can't get past chapter 3. The writing is dense and atomospheric. I can't get into it. Maybe I need to give it another chance.

Don't bother. Nothing happens AT ALL in the first book.

I quit halfway through the 2nd book and sold the third.

The series is vastly overrated.

The whole point is atmosphere- dull, dry atmosphere.

It's even more dense than Tolkein- at least JRR had a STORY in there somewhere. With dialogue... not just 10 pages of a kid wandering around in a graveyard on top of a building.

That being said- the castle really IS wondrous... the problem is that the plot's so dull and the explanations so long that no one can really be expected to sit through it all.

[DarkCloud]

I'm surprised that AE van vogt wasn't mentioned yet.

He's an amazing space opera/adventure author from the dark ages (pre 50's)!
-
As for my favorite 'distopia' story, I'd have to say that, after reading the following:

1984 (George Orwell)
Brave New World (Aldous Huxley)
That Hideous Strength (CS Lewis)
a short story [can't remember the title] by (AE Van Vogt)

that the best done one was Vogt's short- (I found it in a collection)... in it, the society was a bit like brave new world- people were given 1 million dollars at birth, they were matched by a computerized dating service with a bride that shared the interests/had the right genes, they couldn't have sex until their 'bands' were taken off at the engagement ceremony and replaced with one that required them to be loyal to their spouse, and all 'alienated' persons with mental disorders or who were murderous were removed from society. (keep in mind that this was written in the 1950s... it was way ahead of its time)

All urges were suppressed and society ran fairly nicely.

Basically the star of the story spends all his cash, then gets 'married' but not linked, and runs away... He starts a cult following. The state watches him, uncertain what to do to him since he isn't 'alienated'... and he's gone 'underground' so as to speak... then his movement gains power- people keep donating money to him- and since they're enlightened- they won't kill him or deport him- they attempt to convince him to join them...

Eventually he figures out how to free people from sexual desire, and starts selling things.

And then, at the end, it becomes apparent- he did all this for love- because he wanted to marry the 'girl next door'... not some computer-generated match.

--That was the best written of the four- but:
\
that Hideous Strength is the most disturbing of the four.

In all the others, there is no technological advance because people are concerned with pleasure, safety, etc. In that Hideous Strength (after a slow start) the story really moves. A cabal of people want to change the human race to become more 'perfect'. They basically want to genetically engineer people... and in doing so, people will lose their humanity. They attempt to advance and have pleasure- but will destroy the individual in their attempt.

In that way, I think that the novel is more ambitious and wide-reaching than any of the others as it covers everything from politics to theology to science.

That Hideous Strength has to be one of the most important novels of the 20th century- and sadly, I have yet to meet anyone who has read it.

It changed my life- it will change yours

[Jon Miller]

I liked That Hideous Strength, I beleive

(wasn't it the first in a trilogy?)

maybe I shuold read it again

JM

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by JohnT
There's languid and then there's comatose, Molly.

Aaaah, like the difference between Coolidge and Hoover.


I thoroughly enjoyed Roberts' work though- he also wrote an excellent chilly little story called 'Weihnachtsabend' set in an alternate U.K. which collaborated with the Nazis following a right wing Whitehall putsch.

The Edwardian writer H.H. Munro known as Saki also wrote an alternate history story called 'When William Came' which featured a victorious Kaiser Wilhelm installed in Buckingham Palace- and a surreal Anglo-Indian monarchy exiled to Delhi, like white Rajahs.


" "May I ask," said Yeovil, as he handed over the sum demanded and received his quittance, "what the red and white band on your sleeve stands for?"

"Bi-lingual," said the constable, with an air of importance. "Preference is given to members of the Force who qualify in both languages. Nearly all the police engaged on Park duty are bi-lingual. About as many foreigners as English use the parks nowadays; in fact, on a fine Sunday afternoon, you'll find three foreigners to every two English. The park habit is more Continental than British, I take it."

"And are there many Germans in the police Force?" asked Yeovil.

"Well, yes, a good few; there had to be," said the constable; "there were such a lot of resignations when the change came, and they had to be filled up somehow. Lots of men what used to be in the Force emigrated or found work of some other kind, but everybody couldn't take that line; wives and children had to be thought of. 'Tisn't every head of a family that can chuck up a job on the chance of finding another. Starvation's been the lot of a good many what went out. Those of us that stayed on got better pay than we did before, but then of course the duties are much more multitudinous."

"They must be," said Yeovil, fingering his three shilling State document; "by the way," he asked, "are all the grass plots in the Park out of bounds for human feet?"

"Everywhere where you see the notices," said the policeman, "and that's about three-fourths of the whole grass space; there's been a lot of new gravel walks opened up in all directions. People don't want to walk on the grass when they've got clean paths to walk on."

And with this parting reproof the bi-lingual constable strode heavily away, his loss of consideration and self-esteem as a unit of a sometime ruling race evidently compensated for to some extent by his enhanced importance as an official.

"The women and children," thought Yeovil, as he looked after the retreating figure; "yes, that is one side of the problem. The children that have to be fed and schooled, the women folk that have to be cared for, an old mother, perhaps, in the home that cannot be broken up. The old case of giving hostages."

He followed the path alongside the Serpentine, passing under the archway of the bridge and continuing his walk into Kensington Gardens. In another moment he was within view of the Peter Pan statue and at once observed that it had companions. On one side was a group representing a scene from one of the Grimm fairy stories, on the other was Alice in conversation with Gryphon and Mockturtle, the episode looking distressingly stiff and meaningless in its sculptured form. Two other spaces had been cleared in the neighbouring turf, evidently for the reception of further statue groups, which Yeovil mentally assigned to Struwelpeter and Little Lord Fauntleroy.

"German middle-class taste," he commented, "but in this matter we certainly gave them a lead. I suppose the idea is that childish fancy is dead and that it is only decent to erect some sort of memorial to it." "

http://haytom.us/showcatpicks.php?thiscat=10

[DarkCloud]

Originally posted by Jon Miller
I liked That Hideous Strength, I beleive

(wasn't it the first in a trilogy?)

maybe I shuold read it again

JM

It was the third in the Perelandra series, but you don't have to read the other two books at all to understand it.

It stands on its own and has different characters. It just references some things that occured in the first 2.

Glad to see that someone here has read it!

[Ben Kenobi]

BK - I very carefully didn't say you wouldn't like it - I just said that you would find it blasphemous.

Are you implying that I might like it?

[JohnT]

Aaaah, like the difference between Coolidge and Hoover.

Now, now, now. Calvin Coolidge was a very funny guy, possibly the best deadpanner in US Presidential history:

A woman was seated next to Silent Cal who ignored her mindless patter throughout dinner. In exasperation, she said the following:

"Mr. President, you have to say something! After all, I bet my husband that I would get you to say three words to me tonight."

"You lose.'

Cal and his wife were visiting a chicken farmer when the following exchange took place:

"Sir, is it true that a hen only has to have relations twice a year?"
"Yes, that is true."
"Could you please tell that to Mr. Coolidge?"

To which Cal replied:
"Sir, does the rooster have the run of the farm, or is he limited to having relations to only one hen?"
"Oh no, Mr. President. He has the entire henhouse to himself."
"Could you please tell that to Mrs. Coolidge?"

Cal was leaving church one day when he ran into a friend who missed the days services;

"So, what was the sermon about?"
"Sin"
"What did the preacher say about it?"
"He was against it."

The complete text of Coolidge’s inaugural address on being unanimously reelected president of the Massachusetts Senate in 1915:

Honorable Senators: My sincerest thanks I offer you. Conserve the firm foundations of our institutions. Do your work with the spirit of a soldier in the public service. Be loyal to the Commonwealth and to yourselves and be brief; above all be brief.

[Nostromo]

[ajbera]

Originally posted by DarkCloud


It was the third in the Perelandra series, but you don't have to read the other two books at all to understand it.

It stands on its own and has different characters. It just references some things that occured in the first 2.

Glad to see that someone here has read it!

I haven't read the Perelandra series yet, but I've heard it said that one of the books is best described as science fiction, one as a fantasy, and one as horror. I find that most intriguing.