What's the record on children born of one marriage?

[Ben Kenobi]

To have contraception you have to know about it, know were to get it, and be able to pay for it, or know how to get it for free. None of these would apply for many women, specially if folks like you control the education system and make sure women don't know their options.

Right. So none of these folks used a condom improperly and had the condom fail on them? Not a single one of them? I find that a rather difficult claim to substantiate.

Secondly, where have I said women ought not to be educated about their options? All I have said is that women ought to be made aware of the failures of contraception, since it enables them to make an informed choice. One cannot truly be informed, unless one is aware of the potential shortcomings.

Finally, I also believe that Catholic institutions ought not be required to provide information contrary to their mission as Catholic institutions. As a private educational facility they ought to be free to exclude such information if they choose to do so, as any other private institution has the right to manage their affairs.

Public institutions are quite another matter. In these I think folks ought to receive the information out there, including the concept that the failure rate of condoms is much higher than 2 percent.

He was speaking for Condoms, AND in all honesty, I would prefer to see current numbers. And of course, anything used incorrectly will malfunction. Doc. said nothing about contraceptive pills.

Thank you. Yes he spoke of condoms, however, in assessing risks in the real world, you also have to take into account that they will be used incorrectly. This is why all of the 98% citations contain the caveat, that this is if the condoms are used in a correct manner.

As for contraceptive pills, this is why I made the point, that if you are a man, relying upon contraceptive pills, means that you are relying on women to take responsibility for these things. Now, if a woman misses a single pill in her regimen, she can become pregnant. That's the risk you are taking if you rely upon the pill.

Or are you incapable of reading?

I can read just fine gepap.

[Provost Harrison]

So it's quite acceptable for the Catholic church to tell what is tantamount to a pack of lies? Remember omission of important facts is as bad as blatant fabrication! And especially in this case where it is so important to have all the facts at hand!

[BlackCat]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
So it's quite acceptable for the Catholic church to tell what is tantamount to a pack of lies?

Ehrm - you are aware of the fact that the Catholic church represents a religion ?

[Last Conformist]

I think BK's existence is proof of the inefficacy of contraception.

[Dinner]

Here in San Diego our "Little Italy" isn't really all that Italian any more but 10 years ago it was still all 1st, 2nd, or even third generation Italian and little else. Now the city has started a redevelopment plan and the old neighborhood is mostly gone except for the main street which has been turned into a packed affair similar to Chinatown. We do have newer ethnic neighborhoods though. Barrio Logan is all Latino, Linda Vista is referred to by most locals (including the Vietnamese) as "Little Vietnam since EVERYONE there is Vietnamese. Mira Mesa is about 50% Phillippino and 40% recent Polish, Russian, & Ukrainian. The rest of the city is pretty mixed with the rich areas being very white and every where else being mixed.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Right. So none of these folks used a condom improperly and had the condom fail on them? Not a single one of them? I find that a rather difficult claim to substantiate.

$$%@$%@$&^$%$!

Yes, people make mistakes when using a condom- people make mistakes driving. Human error does not change the effectiveness of an item itself, but does bear on the overall efefctiveness. IF you teach someone how to use a condom correctly, and judge their state before using it, the fefctiveness is very high.

Secondly, where have I said women ought not to be educated about their options? All I have said is that women ought to be made aware of the failures of contraception, since it enables them to make an informed choice. One cannot truly be informed, unless one is aware of the potential shortcomings.

And please, since NO ONE has said anything about contraception being ineffective (condoms are not contraception), unless you come up with numbers, you are blowing smoke out your ass.

Finally, I also believe that Catholic institutions ought not be required to provide information contrary to their mission as Catholic institutions. As a private educational facility they ought to be free to exclude such information if they choose to do so, as any other private institution has the right to manage their affairs.

So, again, you support ignorance, and in the long term, a higher rate of abortion. Good for you!

Public institutions are quite another matter. In these I think folks ought to receive the information out there, including the concept that the failure rate of condoms is much higher than 2 percent.

Oh lord, a "enlightened" notion. Now who typed that in?

As for contraceptive pills, this is why I made the point, that if you are a man, relying upon contraceptive pills, means that you are relying on women to take responsibility for these things. Now, if a woman misses a single pill in her regimen, she can become pregnant. That's the risk you are taking if you rely upon the pill.

Well genius, WOMEN get pregnant, NOT men. That's why they control that singular device. If you don;t want a kid, wear a condom and ask her is she is on the pill and has not missed it.

I can read just fine gepap.

Then it must be reading comprehension that's an issue.

[Hueij]

I can read just fine gepap.

You could have fooled me...

Fact: In The Netherlands the abortion count dropped drastically after the introduction of sex education in all public and most religion-based schools. And that was NOT because the kids stopped having sex...

[Last Conformist]

Interestingly, Sweden has almost as high abortion rates as the US, yet we've got NL-style sex ed. There's presumably an explanation for this.

[Jon Miller]

I think that culture plays a bigger role then sex-ed

JM

[Last Conformist]

Possibly, but doesn't explain the Dutch drop when sex ed was introduced.

[Hueij]

Originally posted by Last Conformist
Possibly, but doesn't explain the Dutch drop when sex ed was introduced.

Maybe I should have been more precise. The drop was in Dutch women having an abortion. This was countered by a rise in immigrant women having an abortion. Plus the fact that our laws incited a lot of "tourism" from less enlightened countries.

My take is that the same thing happens in Sweden.

[Immortal Wombat]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi
Condoms are about covering your ass,

Dude, you got it on back-to-front.

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by GePap


Actually genius, that is EXACTLY WHY!!!!!

Jesus, H. Christ, what world are you from?

To have contraception you have to know about it, know were to get it, and be able to pay for it, or know how to get it for free. None of these would apply for many women, specially if folks like you control the education system and make sure women don't know their options.



He was speaking for Condoms, AND in all honesty, I would prefer to see current numbers. And of course, anything used incorrectly will malfunction. Doc. said nothing about contraceptive pills.

Or are you incapable of reading?

In large scale studies oral contraceptives had an efficacy of better than 90%. These figures included those who couldn't remember to take their pills regularily. Depo-Provera and IUDs had a similar efficacy.

[Ben Kenobi]

$$%@$%@$&^$%$!

Yes, people make mistakes when using a condom- people make mistakes driving. Human error does not change the effectiveness of an item itself, but does bear on the overall efefctiveness. IF you teach someone how to use a condom correctly, and judge their state before using it, the fefctiveness is very high.

I don't really care about the item's effectiveness, but rather, about the overall effectiveness. I think people are being taught how to use them properly, but that they are tuning out of the 'use a condom everytime'. If you think you are not going to get someone pregnant, why bother to use a condom?

And please, since NO ONE has said anything about contraception being ineffective (condoms are not contraception), unless you come up with numbers, you are blowing smoke out your ass.

Condoms are part of contraception, gepap.

So, again, you support ignorance, and in the long term, a higher rate of abortion. Good for you!

Oh lord, a "enlightened" notion. Now who typed that in?

The same fellow who typed the earlier point in. Now, for someone who apparently favours 'ignorance', that's rather a bitter pill for you to swallow.

If you actually read my point, you would see that because the Catholic schools are private institutions, they ought to be able to teach what they want to teach. One thing I find particularly interesting, is that many parents want their kids in the Catholic schools, they have a prefereance for them over the public schools, because they believe the Catholic schools do a better job of educating children. It is not a choice between ignorance and enlightenment, but between education and indoctrination.

Well genius, WOMEN get pregnant, NOT men. That's why they control that singular device. If you don;t want a kid, wear a condom and ask her is she is on the pill and has not missed it.

Thank you Gepap. That is precisely my point, the contraceptive devices other than condoms are less of a factor than condoms themselves.

Oh, and IW, stop being such a smartass.

[Mr. Harley]

BK - if you use condoms to "cover your ass" than I suggest to hook up with Mr. Fun or Boris.