Is there scriptual support against premarital sex? I dont think so.

[Alexander's Horse]

the bible completely banned sex

[Boris Godunov]

Tell that to King David!

[Ned]

The clincher in this argument is if there were a Latin or Greek word for sex per se that is not linked to sex with temple or other prostitutes. I hardly think that Paul and others in such a age would declare a young girl who has sex out of love be declared a "harlot." Harlotry clearly implies commercial sex.

One also has to remember the times. Yound girls married at 13 or 14. The opportunities for sex with unmarried girls was very limited even while the opportunity for sex with prostitutes was unlimited.

[Ben Kenobi]

Given that we haven't heard much about your expertise in either Old Testament Hebrew or New Testament Greek or indeed time travelling, then you're relying on your interpretations of someone else's translation and interpretation of a text written in and for a particular historical context thousands of years ago.

Which is quite different than making it up out of whole cloth.

No, I am not a scholar in the NT Greek or the OT Hebrew, and nor do I claim to be. However, if this is your thesis, the onus is on you to show why we should not accept the interpretation I have shown.

As for complaints of bias, do note that I am quoting from the NIV, as that is considered to be a very good translation by these authorities, moreso than our older versions simply because we have access to older manuscripts than we had earlier.

In other words, it could have said whatever the politico-religious inclinations of the translator wanted it to say, especially given the difference between language as poetics/revelation and language as legal manual/rational description.

One thing to speculate. Another to prove Molly.

Martin Luther's 'translation' of the Bible said what he wanted it so say, for instance. So sorry, your 'version' is no more accurate or true than any number of others.

Well, its a good thing that I don't quote Martin Luther's version than. Strawman.

[Ben Kenobi]

That would be quite a trick, since Matthew was most likely written after Paul was dead.

Very true. Both quote the same passage in Genesis, which is something I wondered if LoTM would be willing to admit.

Thank you for further establishing my argument, Boris.

[Alexander's Horse]

I swear he thinks he's the freakin Pope

[Mrs. Tuberski]

I am wondering why everyone here knows how to dechiper the bible. You know what your taught, not what you read unless your a ****ing genusis.

[Ted Striker]

<--------- ****ing genius

[Mrs. Tuberski]

Originally posted by Ted Striker
<--------- ****ing genius

yes dear you are

[Ted Striker]

[Mrs. Tuberski]

isnt it true that poetry is like the bible you dont know the meaning unles you wrote it? I dont think any of you guys worte the bible so you dont know what they were saying. You only know what was taught to you by folks that translate it for you.

[Alexander's Horse]

my Aramaic and Hebrew is a bit rusty

[Toby Rowe]

Given that Prostitution is quoted as being the worlds oldest profession, with Spying as the second, shouldn't all Religions accept that the former happens due to the urge to procreate, therefore condemning it is an own goal for a Church, whilst useful education would be good?

When we died at 25-30 in ancient times, we needed a partner once we hit puberty, now we live until about 70 the rush for a partner isn't necessary, whilst the sex drive remains- sensible adaptation by the Church to bring biblical teachings upto date on the reality of modern life and modern life expectancy is long overdue.

I was born a Catholic and I see on the news HIV and AIDS kill faithful members of the Church daily (talk about killing off the faithful!!)

You can't change Human nature much but you can change biblical teachings to being based upon the real world, not one from 2,000 years ago.

For this reason I remain agnostic, not aithiest like my mum.

Toby

Ps,

Reading the swearing above, If a couple live together for 6 years having sex (or in reality making love as you do), my Priest wouldn't marry me based on the Bible, If 6 years of living together isn't a serious commitment, what is? Much better than a one-night stand I feel.

The world has changed drastically since the Bible was written, the New Testament was an attempt to keep up with reality 500 years ago.

Humankind is constantly having to accept new inventions that change our lives, and the last 80 years have brought huge changes to how humans live and act (Radio, television, Internet and two World Wars that solidified the nation state as supreme regarding loyalty of a human to it, not to religion: (as the Founding Fathers wished for in the US when they fled religious oppression in Europe.)

I wish the Christian Churches would sit down, talk about historical changes, perhaps decide the world is different to the Roman Empire and oppression of Christians and Jews when written, along with War elephants as a weapon and do an even Newer Bible that accepts how the world is today.

Most humans experience a life that is very different to what the book taught these days. it needs to be updated; chastising the average person in the street will make most simply laugh.

In my Grandfathers day, he went to the Priest for advice, whilst my son sends a text to several mates on his mobile phone.

Sex is free, so is HIV, condoms are good, as is teaching the virtue of a relationship, over one-night stands made in a nightclub and forgotten at 7am.

I want a new Bible before I'll consider my religion, or any other again.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by bfg9000

I'm already in, but she is feeling guilty and wants to stop. And yes, that is my primary concern - wanting to prevent that from happening, but the whole thing has made me want to examine the church's position on premarital sex more closely. In the past, I have just ignored the church position, now I want to fight it.

Are you sure she wants to stop because of religious beliefs? It is possible she just isn't as in to you as she used to be. Nothing personal but I wanted to explore all options.

[Alexander's Horse]

considering he seems to be a complete arsehole that seems quite likely