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There are many references to ‘sexual immorality’ and “the sexually immoral” within the bible, most of them in the NT by Paul, but they seem to be referring to adultery, incest, and other perversions. Don’t really see any specific NT references to premarital sex as immoral. Don’t even see that implied. It was St Augustine who first floated that idea in his Confessions:
That book was relevant in the 4th century. It was based on 4th century morality not on scripture. Read something interesting online about biblical references to fornication as well:
In Book 2 of the Confessions Augustine describes his further descent into moral disorder during his adolescent years. By the time that a youth reaches adolescence, and becomes conscious of the demands of the moral law, his sins take on a far more troubling dimension than they previously had: whereas the child cannot be held personally accountable for his sins, the adolescent, by freely and consciously choosing to transgress God’s law, incurs a far greater penalty for his transgressions than he previously would have incurred.
In 2.2 Augustine contrasts the ordered love ( caritas), in which the soul loves created thing in God, and disordered love (cupiditas or LUST), in which the soul craves created things for their own sake. Augustine's lust leaves him "storm-tossed" and "boil[ing] over in [his] fornication." During this period he describes himself as sinking further and further into his own depravity, because there was no one around who could put "measure on [his] disorder. [Remember: although he is nominally a Catholic he is not officially a member of any Church because he has yet to be baptized]
He comes home from Madura for a short reprieve from his studies. We get the sense in chapter 2.3 that he believes that his parents failed to provide him with the kind of guidance he needed to avoid falling to sexual temptation. Instead of imparting a unified message about the dangers of sexual activity outside of marriage, they all but justified his illicit behavior. Although his mother Monica initially warned Augustine against premarital intercourse, she almost immediately qualified her warning by discouraging him instead against adultery—a message which he evidently took to heart. Still worse, his father seemed completely uninterested "in how chaste I was," and at times even encouraged his burgeoning sexuality.
Although there is some speculation about the extent of Augustine's wanton activities during this period, most scholars maintain that Augustine did nothing worse than the average young adult in Roman society. Remember: he is writing the Confessions after his conversion and like all converts he is hyper-sensitive about his failings.
In 2.2 Augustine contrasts the ordered love ( caritas), in which the soul loves created thing in God, and disordered love (cupiditas or LUST), in which the soul craves created things for their own sake. Augustine's lust leaves him "storm-tossed" and "boil[ing] over in [his] fornication." During this period he describes himself as sinking further and further into his own depravity, because there was no one around who could put "measure on [his] disorder. [Remember: although he is nominally a Catholic he is not officially a member of any Church because he has yet to be baptized]
He comes home from Madura for a short reprieve from his studies. We get the sense in chapter 2.3 that he believes that his parents failed to provide him with the kind of guidance he needed to avoid falling to sexual temptation. Instead of imparting a unified message about the dangers of sexual activity outside of marriage, they all but justified his illicit behavior. Although his mother Monica initially warned Augustine against premarital intercourse, she almost immediately qualified her warning by discouraging him instead against adultery—a message which he evidently took to heart. Still worse, his father seemed completely uninterested "in how chaste I was," and at times even encouraged his burgeoning sexuality.
Although there is some speculation about the extent of Augustine's wanton activities during this period, most scholars maintain that Augustine did nothing worse than the average young adult in Roman society. Remember: he is writing the Confessions after his conversion and like all converts he is hyper-sensitive about his failings.
I Cor 6:9 badly mistranslate "porneia" as fornication. Corinth was a wide-open port city. People there could get sex any way they wanted it. Where our English translations read 'fornication', Paul's original Greek word was 'porneia' which means to sell and refers to slaves bought and sold for cultic prostitution. What was happening in the Temples of Corinth was farmers were visiting the temple priestesses who represented the fertility Gods. By having sex with these prostitutes they believed their fields would be more fertile. It didn't even have to do with going to prostitutes, but pagan cultic worship.
In Rome, the Latin prostitutes would hang out in small alley's and behind small L shaped walls. In Latin the shape is called FORNIX, hence the place association with acts of prostitution gave "fornicatio" Where Paul was condemning sex goddess, cultic, prostitution or trafficking in slaves for that purpose, the Latin fathers substituted 'fornicatio', which led readers to believe that Paul was condemning all forms of premarital sexual intercourse."
Some modern English Bible versions translate "porneia" as "sexual immorality", a term which is supposed to clarify the somewhat obscure and dated "fornication", but is really a catch-all term that allows interpreters, both professional and lay, to apply this passage to any sexual behavior at all, far beyond the specific practices to which Paul refers.
From "Halley's Bible Handbook" 1 Cor. 6: 9-20; "Venus was the principal Deity of Corinth. Her temple was one of the most magnificent buildings in the city. In it a thousand Priestesses, Public Prostitutes, were kept, at public expense, there always ready for Immoral Indulgence, as worship to their Goddess." The Christians continued to go to the temple for sexual indulgences with the priestesses of Venus. This was all Paul was talking about and he says nothing about loving sexual pleasure-sharing with non-goddesses'!
It does violation to the Biblical text to assume I Cor.6:9 includes pre-marital sex, especially since that is not the context of the discussion, either of that chapter or of the surrounding chapters. The context of I Cor.6 is the problems with the Temple of Aphrodite. Sex with those prostitutes was idolatrous. The argument that Paul condemns singles' sex here or anywhere else in scripture is faulty interpretation. Such a position is illogical because your assumptions are based on emotional constructs rather than on history and on hard evidence.
Nothing in the NT indicates any prohibition of singles' sexuality. It seems that if we apply Jesus' teaching of love over legalism, responsible Christian sexuality is much more an example of Christ's loving desire for us than the traditional biblical values of many wives, concubines as breeders, and capturing women in battle for soldiers' sexual pleasure!
A Prodigy poster said: "..I think that David H's post cannot be so easily dismissed. I am not a theologian-although I did attend a seminary...and I have studied a fair amount of Greek.....While at the seminary, I wrote a paper on the translation of "porneia". As you must know if you have studied the question, "fornication" is a bald mistranslation of "porneia" (even my very conservative Greek professor conceded this point). If one discounts the N.T. passages containing this mistranslation--including the selection from Thessalonians...there is little remaining support for the position that the Bible condemns premarital sexuality....if one takes an objective view of what the Bible has to say on the subject, sexuality outside of marriage seems to be accepted....I would also acknowledge that most people would be happier...if they would simply accept the church's traditional position...But to condemn all sexuality outside of marriage as sin seems to go well beyond what the Bible teaches--and Paul has a good deal to say about that in Galatians."
All of us should search our own spirits. God can lead people differently, resulting in reaching different people in sharing Christ's love. We also must respect others' beliefs but try not to cause another to stumble, since some cannot handle emotionally anything other than the traditional Church view.
Again a Prodigy poster: "Scripture is only one way God speaks to us and has a number of limitations because it was not written with modern conditions in mind. While reading scripture is useful, it is only useful when done in prayer.. and in not relying on the Holy Spirit but relying instead on the Bible as a substitute for His wisdom. In the absence of unambiguous mandate from scripture, it is wrong for me to impose a personal moral code on others who believe differently".
In Rome, the Latin prostitutes would hang out in small alley's and behind small L shaped walls. In Latin the shape is called FORNIX, hence the place association with acts of prostitution gave "fornicatio" Where Paul was condemning sex goddess, cultic, prostitution or trafficking in slaves for that purpose, the Latin fathers substituted 'fornicatio', which led readers to believe that Paul was condemning all forms of premarital sexual intercourse."
Some modern English Bible versions translate "porneia" as "sexual immorality", a term which is supposed to clarify the somewhat obscure and dated "fornication", but is really a catch-all term that allows interpreters, both professional and lay, to apply this passage to any sexual behavior at all, far beyond the specific practices to which Paul refers.
From "Halley's Bible Handbook" 1 Cor. 6: 9-20; "Venus was the principal Deity of Corinth. Her temple was one of the most magnificent buildings in the city. In it a thousand Priestesses, Public Prostitutes, were kept, at public expense, there always ready for Immoral Indulgence, as worship to their Goddess." The Christians continued to go to the temple for sexual indulgences with the priestesses of Venus. This was all Paul was talking about and he says nothing about loving sexual pleasure-sharing with non-goddesses'!
It does violation to the Biblical text to assume I Cor.6:9 includes pre-marital sex, especially since that is not the context of the discussion, either of that chapter or of the surrounding chapters. The context of I Cor.6 is the problems with the Temple of Aphrodite. Sex with those prostitutes was idolatrous. The argument that Paul condemns singles' sex here or anywhere else in scripture is faulty interpretation. Such a position is illogical because your assumptions are based on emotional constructs rather than on history and on hard evidence.
Nothing in the NT indicates any prohibition of singles' sexuality. It seems that if we apply Jesus' teaching of love over legalism, responsible Christian sexuality is much more an example of Christ's loving desire for us than the traditional biblical values of many wives, concubines as breeders, and capturing women in battle for soldiers' sexual pleasure!
A Prodigy poster said: "..I think that David H's post cannot be so easily dismissed. I am not a theologian-although I did attend a seminary...and I have studied a fair amount of Greek.....While at the seminary, I wrote a paper on the translation of "porneia". As you must know if you have studied the question, "fornication" is a bald mistranslation of "porneia" (even my very conservative Greek professor conceded this point). If one discounts the N.T. passages containing this mistranslation--including the selection from Thessalonians...there is little remaining support for the position that the Bible condemns premarital sexuality....if one takes an objective view of what the Bible has to say on the subject, sexuality outside of marriage seems to be accepted....I would also acknowledge that most people would be happier...if they would simply accept the church's traditional position...But to condemn all sexuality outside of marriage as sin seems to go well beyond what the Bible teaches--and Paul has a good deal to say about that in Galatians."
All of us should search our own spirits. God can lead people differently, resulting in reaching different people in sharing Christ's love. We also must respect others' beliefs but try not to cause another to stumble, since some cannot handle emotionally anything other than the traditional Church view.
Again a Prodigy poster: "Scripture is only one way God speaks to us and has a number of limitations because it was not written with modern conditions in mind. While reading scripture is useful, it is only useful when done in prayer.. and in not relying on the Holy Spirit but relying instead on the Bible as a substitute for His wisdom. In the absence of unambiguous mandate from scripture, it is wrong for me to impose a personal moral code on others who believe differently".
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