World Soccer Thread II

[MikeH]

Like the American woman I saw in the Windsor castle gift shop shouting at the assistant because they couldn't find the *generic tourist junk* for Henry VIIIths other two wives. The poor assistant was politely trying to explain that he only had 6 wives and was responded with a barrage of... "how dare they suggest she didn't know her English history..."

Personally I think most American tourists are really nice but the few rude obnoxious ones are so loud they give the others a bad name.

[MikeH]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui


Well, we do have our hecklers... but nothing on the scale of English stadiums chanting baudy slogans. We like to wish other teams good luck when we aren't playing them (or they aren't our rivals) as well. I guess you English don't do that .

It's different at a rugby (union) match, there it's very polite banter and drinking together and having fun.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by MikeH
Like the American woman I saw in the Windsor castle gift shop shouting at the assistant because they couldn't find the *generic tourist junk* for Henry VIIIths other two wives. The poor assistant was politely trying to explain that he only had 6 wives and was responded with a barrage of... "how dare they suggest she didn't know her English history..."

Personally I think most American tourists are really nice but the few rude obnoxious ones are so loud they give the others a bad name.

Oh for the day when we can export our problem customers. You think its bad when they are tourists! Watch them in their home country. They think they have a 'right' to everything under the sun!

[MikeH]

At least they'll be regularly eating waiters spit in their meals.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Interesting news from UEFA... they are confident this will survive the Court of Justice because 'home-grown' means coming through the system rather than a certain country, but in application will it a restraint on free movement of workers?!

http://soccernet.espn.go.com/headlinenews?id=331301&cc=5901

UEFA approves home-grown quotas


TALLINN, April 21 (Reuters) - Clubs taking part in European club competitions must include eight home-grown players in their 25-man squads by the start of the 2008-09 season following a landmark decision taken at UEFA's annual congress on Thursday.

The new rule will come into force at the start of the 2006-07 season with four home-grown players in the squads for Champions League and UEFA Cup matches, rising to six in 2007-08 and eight the season after.

The ruling does not apply to domestic competitions, although UEFA is encouraging its members to adopt the rule in their own competitions too.

The home-grown rule was the major decision approved by UEFA's 52 member nations, although the congress also agreed to defer the election for the next president of UEFA and other executive committee elections until 2007 to bring UEFA into line with FIFA and most of the other confederations.

Meanwhile, both UEFA president Lennart Johansson and his FIFA counterpart Sepp Blatter, who addressed the congress, condemned the recent outbreaks of violence, corruption and continued racism in the sport.

'There are dark clouds threatening on the horizon,' said Blatter, who added: 'we must all live up to our social and educational responsibilities.'

Johansson told reporters later that UEFA seriously condemned the latest outbreaks of violence in Italy and the Netherlands and said all UEFA members are aware of their responsibilities.

'They all know what they should be doing,' he said. 'We tell them over and over again.'

The home-grown rule was designed at least partly to redress the balance in terms of clubs fielding locally developed players who they either trained themselves or were coached at another club within the same country.

The ruling has evolved over months of negotiation with the European Union, governments, politicians and all of football's 'stakeholders', the clubs, national associations, coaches and academies at grass-roots level.

The problem was to devise a system that did not conflict with the EU's eligibility laws as there are no longer any restrictions on player movement in Europe.

So, a young player of any nationality can be developed between the ages of 15 and 21 for three years as a junior and be eligible as a home-grown player.

A six-point declaration adopted by congress laid out the fundamentals of the plan, which is effectively designed to also stop rich clubs 'hoarding' players as well as just buying in success.

'The training and development of young players is of crucial importance to the future of football. Every football club in every national association should play a part in this process,' the declaration says.

It also states that while UEFA recognises the part that finance plays in football today, the game 'should not be a mere financial contest. It should above all be a sporting contest.

'This sporting element means that every club must accept some responsibility for training and not rely solely on acquiring those players who were trained by others.'

Executive committee member Per Ravn Omdal, who presented the plan to the congress, said it was of fundamental importance to football's future that home-grown players had more influence at their clubs.

'This is just a start,' he told Reuters afterwards. 'We have deliberately started it in a modest way so that clubs can keep step with the development of the scheme.

'I know there might be some pitfalls, that clubs might try and poach players even younger than they are now, but they do this anyway today although there are laws of the land which should be observed.'

The announcement that the elections for the presidency of UEFA were being put back a year until 2007 has thrown the election campaign of Michel Platini into some disarray. Platini will now not campaign until this time next year at the earliest.

Johansson, 75, who has been UEFA president since 1990, said: 'Perhaps he will become the next president, why not? But some executive members felt he has started his campaign too early.

'Franz Beckenbauer has also told me he is considering throwing his hat in the ring.'

Intriguingly Johansson did not rule himself out of the race although he has hinted strongly in the past he would retire after his current term ends.

[Maquiladora]

Werent UEFA preventing Mourinho from doing his job when they banned him from the dressing room and touchline? He should go to the European court of human rights !

As for home grown rule, they should bring back the 4 foreigners only rule for all competitions, the Premiership would be far more interesting. I have visions of Chelsea players talking in cockney rhyming slang about beef and steakney pie.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Originally posted by Maquiladora
Werent UEFA preventing Mourinho from doing his job when they banned him from the dressing room and touchline? He should go to the European court of human rights !

As for home grown rule, they should bring back the 4 foreigners only rule for all competitions, the Premiership would be far more interesting. I have visions of Chelsea players talking in cockney rhyming slang about beef and steakney pie.

The Mourinho incident doesn't fit because he violated the rules of his job and therefore was punished. He still has his job.

The 4 foriegners only DEFINETLY violates free movement of workers... remember that whole Bosman ruling? If want to go back to that, you have to amend the Treaty on European Union. This UEFA rule is different because it doesn't restrict it to nationals... it restricts it based on if you went through the youth team. So all 8 of, say, Liverpool's home-grown players could be Spanish if that was the direction they decided to go in their youth teams.

[MikeH]

It'll be interesting to see if anyone bothers taking that to court...

What's more interesting (I think) is Ashley Cole's defence against the 'tapping up' row.

This could have Bosman like implications.

http://football.guardian.co.uk/News_Story/0,1563,1463863,00.html

The FA must really be kicking themselves. I can't see any way that his case could fail if it went to court. He's absolutely right...

I also think that the transfer window could be challenged in the European court as prohibiting freedom of movement for workers and being against standard employment law.

I think that players should obviously have exactly the same employment rights as any other EU citizen.

[reds4ever]

With a good lawyer, I don't see how Coles case could fail.

How do US sports get round this sort of thing re. drafting and salary caps etc?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Cole does have an interesting case on this. He may win, but I don't know British employment law and whether sports have special standing on things like looking for a new job.

US sports' draft and salary caps have not yet been challenged in court, IIRC, but in the past, the Courts have said if it is part of a collective bargaining agreement, then you are SOL. Similarly situated players decided to agree to a salary cap in exchange for other things and a player is bound.

[reds4ever]

I still don't get the draft Imran, if a young player doesn't want to go to the Redskins (and lets face why would he?) he has to go no matter what. Is the NFL above the law, as the FA/UEFA used to think it was?

Not a troll, a serious question

Whats SOL BTW?

[notyoueither]

S*** Out of Luck

[Imran Siddiqui]

I still don't get the draft Imran, if a young player doesn't want to go to the Redskins (and lets face why would he?) he has to go no matter what. Is the NFL above the law, as the FA/UEFA used to think it was?

Collective bargaining agreement. The NFL players union got together with the owners and agreed to the draft system. A collective bargaining agreement in sports can be used to limit the rights of players. Under the National Labor Relations Act, a collective bargaining agreement is exempt from the Sherman Anti-Trust Act.

Remember the Maurice Clarett case, challenging an experience limit (3 years out of high school to be eligible for the draft) was decided agaisnt Clarett.

[notyoueither]

Originally posted by reds4ever
I still don't get the draft Imran, if a young player doesn't want to go to the Redskins (and lets face why would he?) he has to go no matter what. Is the NFL above the law, as the FA/UEFA used to think it was?

Not a troll, a serious question

That's a darn good question, and the answer might be that a league is considered a single enterprise.

You leap for joy at going to work for mega-corp, but you are not happy being sent to the Sheboigan branch. Tough!

[Imran Siddiqui]

Actually I think that the NFL is not considered a single enterprise.. because the owners do fight amongst themselves a lot (think Al Davis). But they aren't really competitors in the true sense. They rely on each other for survival, so they go in a middle area.

I think the question turns on the collective bargaining agreement the NFL has with the NFLPA. Eligibility of workers is something that is proper to be decided under a CBA. After all, you have closed shops, where you are required to be a union member before working in a closed shop company. Same principal, IMO.