Conclave

[DRoseDARs]

No. Sorry, but no.



Pope Tassadar

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by Brent
If people want 1) 3) and 4), why call it the same religion? Married Priests however, is how it is supposed to be in my belief.

Its not really about where you stand on one issue or another, its really about bums on seats. What I mean is the whole edifice of the church, the Vatican, the cathedrals, the schools, the hospitals, the seminaries, the orphanages, you name it, is supported at a grassroots level by parishioners who go to mass every week and pay their tithes. If the parishioners disappear the church is in big, big trouble. This applies to the Third World as well because it is money from the wealthy parts of the world that pay for the missionary work and the services in those parts of the world.

If you don't want to follow the teachings of said church, why not leave it?

Because that is the chaos that we call protestantism

The catholic church changes with the times, contrary to the widely held view of outsiders, and some insiders. There is a great waiting going on, even amongst the lapsed catholics. Lets not forget the church's current teachings on divorce and remarriage alone have separated literally hundreds of millions from the church in Europe and North America.

[Ben Kenobi]

I hope noncatholics like myself are welcome in this thread as long as we are at least as respectful as the catholics...

Well, if we let the atheists post, I guess we can let you.

Welcome aboard.

[Ben Kenobi]

They lost a 100,000 priests and about 500,000 people in holy orders during his term. The Church is in a very poor state, in crisis in fact. JPII and the Vatican is blamed for a lot of that, as he got older he became more and more autocratic. The Cardinals don't want another Pope like that. Neither do the clergy or laeity.

In the company I keep, you'd find it hard to hear one word of criticism for pope John Paul II. And given that almost all of them are faithful, young Catholics, who will soon be having families and putting butts in the seats, I think that's something that needs to be considered.

Just because the priests are declining, doesn't mean that the papacy is responsible, rather I would be astonished if they did not drop, due to the general cultural shift away from religious orders.

Yes, there is a need for priests, and yes that need is increasing. But I'm not worried about the church. People are flocking to the Catholic church, because of what the church stands for, in rejection of the world, and not in submission to it.

I still think it is better to not have married priests, since the one who is married has his attentions divided, while the one who is unmarried, can devote himself entirely to God.

[Ben Kenobi]

Birth control was the issue that damaged the church the most. Thats blown up again because of aids.

How so? If all the other churches approve of birth control, and the Catholic chruch rejects birth control, why don't we see people joining these other churches? The catholic church is one of the few churches that are still growing here in Canada, while the Anglicans, and United churches continue to hemorrhage members. This is despite the fact that both churches approve of birth control.

The married priest question was one of the low points of this pontificate. The church already has married priests, they are Anglican/Episcopalian converts mostly. But the Pope said the celibacy rule would not be relaxed even though it has no theological basis and this is not disputed.

Granted, the requirement of unmarried priests is one of tradition, but there are sound reasons behind this requirement.

The women priests thing was even worse - not only did JPII rule it out completely but he forbade discussion of it. How can you forbid discussion of something? The days when the Vatican can just issue edicts and everyone obeys are long gone.

It hearkens back to your earlier statement as to the theological basis. These issues have different roots, the celibacy rule rests on tradition, while the one forbidding female priests, upon theology.

In fact, one of the reasons I like the catholic church is that they deny men and women are interchangeable parts, rather each has their own function in the church.

[Alexander's Horse]

There is a saying in the church Ben that there is nothing worse than a convert

(I'll bet they didn't tell you that one in your catuchumenate preparation)

This conclave is going to be very interesting because I can tell you that when the Cardinals sit down there is going to be a lot of frank speaking about some of the things I have mentioned, particularly Papal and Vatican power.

[Ecthy]

There'll be a new pope by the time of my new flat's inauguration party (April 22). many jokes will be told, already looking forward to it

Any Berlin region Apolytoners are welcome - Albrechtstraße 81 in Steglitz

[KrazyHorse]

Originally posted by Ted Striker


Most people want:

1) Women priests
2) Married priests
3) Relaxed rules regarding birth control
4) Relaxed rules regarding homosexuality

Not true.

[KrazyHorse]

Only 3 is true even in NA

[Bosh]

I still think it is better to not have married priests, since the one who is married has his attentions divided, while the one who is unmarried, can devote himself entirely to God.

BUT THERE ALREADY ARE MARRIED PRIESTS. If an Episcopalian priest converts to Catholicism he can be Catholic priest and keep his wife. And then there's all those Mid-eastern Churches that recognize the Pope's supremacy and still have married priests. Its a complete joke that the Church doesn't allow the rest of the clergy to marry.

[Jaguar]

Originally posted by joncha
Ben Kenobi for Pope

[Jon Miller]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


How so? If all the other churches approve of birth control, and the Catholic chruch rejects birth control, why don't we see people joining these other churches? The catholic church is one of the few churches that are still growing here in Canada, while the Anglicans, and United churches continue to hemorrhage members. This is despite the fact that both churches approve of birth control.



Granted, the requirement of unmarried priests is one of tradition, but there are sound reasons behind this requirement.



It hearkens back to your earlier statement as to the theological basis. These issues have different roots, the celibacy rule rests on tradition, while the one forbidding female priests, upon theology.

In fact, one of the reasons I like the catholic church is that they deny men and women are interchangeable parts, rather each has their own function in the church.

among SDAs it is encouraged that pastors and elders be married

I beleive that it is mentioned in Paul that church leaders should be married

JOn Miller

[Alexander's Horse]

its also not an either/or situation - people can take vows of chastity if they wish

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi

It hearkens back to your earlier statement as to the theological basis. These issues have different roots, the celibacy rule rests on tradition, while the one forbidding female priests, upon theology.

Oh yeah, I missed that bit in the New Testament where God said 'By the way, no women priests, guys.'

Still, like the Trinity, the idea of forbidding women from becoming priests is one of those things that doesn't have biblical sanction, it just grew like Topsy.

[Jon Miller]

I agree with that

Jon Miller
(although I do accept the Trinity idea... it isn't the only interpretation of the Bible)