Conclave

[MRT144]

i think the problem is everyone wants the catholic church to bend to them, not vice versa. and for better or worse its thinning out the catholic church.

p.s.

whats another name for a lutheran?

recovering catholic

[Alexander's Horse]

Originally posted by molly bloom


Still, like the Trinity, the idea of forbidding women from becoming priests is one of those things that doesn't have biblical sanction, it just grew like Topsy.

heretic! heretic! Burn him!

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse


heretic! heretic! Burn him!

But I'm an apostate homo- I have to be tortured first, then burnt. I demand the full menu, not the businessman's special !

[Alexander's Horse]

don't forget the renounciation - you must confess and renounce before we can chop you up

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
don't forget the renounciation - you must confess and renounce before we can chop you up

If my soul is saved, it must go into a high interest account.

[DanS]

Originally posted by Boshko

BUT THERE ALREADY ARE MARRIED PRIESTS. If an Episcopalian priest converts to Catholicism he can be Catholic priest and keep his wife. And then there's all those Mid-eastern Churches that recognize the Pope's supremacy and still have married priests. Its a complete joke that the Church doesn't allow the rest of the clergy to marry.

It's a lot more complicated than that. Families cost the church money and time. Families make missionary work more difficult. Scandal has accompanied married priests as well at times in the past -- the church has a long, long memory...

There are good reasons why the church has kept priests unmarried for so long, which you'll have to recognize in order to have an honest and full discussion of the matter.

[DanS]

By the way, I don't really agree with AH's analysis of the church as a whole being in crisis. In the US, the church is in crisis in many areas because of the pedophilia scandals. But it doesn't really seem to go beyond that much. Asses are staying in seats, on the whole. Indeed, I think the crisis is in large part the result of too little oversight by Rome, not too much.

Much of the West European church is in a state of grave disrepair, but I view that as a centuries-long process. It isn't a new thing that asses aren't in seats.

Parts of the Central/Eastern European church are going great guns. Africa and Asia are growing quickly with new converts. Latin America has challenges, but there is no crisis.

Now the question is whether the concerns of the Western European church will hold sway in the conclave. I suggest that the full airing of views will not be dominated by the concerns that AH mentions.

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by DanS

It's a lot more complicated than that. Families cost the church money and time. Families make missionary work more difficult. Scandal has accompanied married priests as well at times in the past -- the church has a long, long memory...

There are good reasons why the church has kept priests unmarried for so long, which you'll have to recognize in order to have an honest and full discussion of the matter.

Never heard that the evangelical churches had any of the problems you mentioned, although they generally allow their priests to marry (at least no problems nowadays).

So it maybe wise from the new pope to discuss if the celibate still makes sense.

[Brent]

If there were no female priests in the bible, why should there be now? the Priesthood is not so much a privelige as a responsibility. The genders have separate but equal responsibilities. Maybe if men could naturally bear children, women could be priests. Men and women have differences, differences in personality, differences in nature, differences in abilities, differences in talents.

Having the experience of raising children is good training for church leadership. Ideally church leadership should not be a means of income.

[DanS]

The evangelical churches don't work like the RCC and their "soul share" isn't very high in comparison. Something to keep in mind.

So it maybe wise from the new pope to discuss if the celibate still makes sense.

It might be wise to do so.

[molly bloom]

Originally posted by Proteus_MST


Never heard that the evangelical churches had any of the problems you mentioned, although they generally allow their priests to marry (at least no problems nowadays).

That's because the heretics use contraception.

In point of fact, during the Middle Ages illegitimate children were known as 'the Pope's b@st@rds' or 'the Pope's children' because so many had been fathered by monks, friars and priests.

As I recall, it was more to do with priests leaving their money to their children, rather than any biblically sanctioned injunction against priestly marriage. Married priests survived until the early middle ages, but I can't lay my hands on the reference at the moment.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Brent
If there were no female priests in the bible, why should there be now? the Priesthood is not so much a privelige as a responsibility. The genders have separate but equal responsibilities. Maybe if men could naturally bear children, women could be priests. Men and women have differences, differences in personality, differences in nature, differences in abilities, differences in talents.

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by molly bloom

That's because the heretics use contraception.

In point of fact, during the Middle Ages illegitimate children were known as 'the Pope's b@st@rds' or 'the Pope's children' because so many had been fathered by monks, friars and priests.

As I recall, it was more to do with priests leaving their money to their children, rather than any biblically sanctioned injunction against priestly marriage. Married priests survived until the early middle ages, but I can't lay my hands on the reference at the moment.

I agree, this and probably STDs like Syphilis.


As for the conclave:
Sounds like it will be a very long conclave.
Now the cardinals have come together for the second day to decide over a date for the begin of the conclave, and they still haven´t agreed on a date.
If they take this long to decide over the date of beginning, how long will they take to decide who will be the next pope?
(well, at least I doubt they will take as long as the Cardinals who elected Johannes XXII during the 14th century; these took 2 years and 3 months )

[MarkG]

Francis Arinze of Nigeria

As a convert and a citizen of a country where about half the people are Muslim, Arinze had special qualifications for the job Pope John Paul II gave him in 1985, head of the Vatican body now known as the Pontifical Council for Inter-Religious Dialogue. It is in this role as ambassador to other faiths that he is largely known outside Nigeria and the Vatican today.

At a time of perceived confrontation between Christianity and Islam, electors in Rome might view his interfaith channels of communication as a useful attribute for a pope. And, being an African, he may be viewed in more neutral terms by non-Westerners than a European pope would be.

a black pope before a black US president. now that would be something interesting.... any bets?

[Odin]

Originally posted by MarkG

a black pope before a black US president. now that would be something interesting.... any bets?

I can see southern rednecks saying "see. see, dem papists are evil, dey got a [n-word] leading 'em!"