Conclave

[Brent]

America is the cradle of religious freedom.

[Ben Kenobi]

And since Paul never had any contact with Christ, we assume he's quoting accurately...why?

Let's see, one of the foremost persecutors of the church shows up on the Christian doorstops to convert, testifying he has seen the risen Christ appear to him.

I think that counts as having some contact with Christ.

Now, the reason why I assume he is quoting correctly, is because he quotes word for word what Matthew and Mark say about the two becoming one flesh.

[Odin]

Originally posted by DanS
To be fair, there are probably other western countries that are more religious than the US. Maybe Americans are just poseurs. (Public displays of religion are taboo in many European countries.)

Actually, church attendance in Western Europe is much lower than in the US, so attitudes about religion in the public sphere is not the only reason.

Oh, and I find it funny that Babtists, who 200 years ago were the biggest supporters of seperation of church and state, are now crazy fundies who want to turn the US into a theocracy.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


testifying he has seen the risen Christ appear to him.

I think that counts as having some contact with Christ.

Self Pwned

[Ben Kenobi]

It was enough to convince the Christians that they ought to accept the testimony of Paul.

[The Mad Monk]

Originally posted by Rufus T. Firefly


And since Paul never had any contact with Christ, we assume he's quoting accurately...why?

My favorite scene in The Last Temptation of Christ -- one of my favorite movies -- is the scene scene within Christ's "temptation," when he meets Paul (played with a fundie-preacher accent by Harry Dean Stanton). As Paul extols teh wonder of the resurrected Christ, Christ protests that he's still alive, to which Paul says, in effect, "I've got the powerful story; I don't actually need you."

Well, exactly.

For all their disagreements, Paul had the support of Peter.

[Proteus_MST]

Originally posted by Odin


Actually, church attendance in Western Europe is much lower than in the US, so attitudes about religion in the public sphere is not the only reason.

Oh, and I find it funny that Babtists, who 200 years ago were the biggest supporters of seperation of church and state, are now crazy fundies who want to turn the US into a theocracy.

Perhaps both something to do with the reasons for many people to come to america:
"Being persecuted in Europe because of their religion"

200 years ago where the memory of this persecution was still fresh in the Baptists who came to america, and they (understandably) wanted strict separation of church and state, as they knew which could happen if church and state work too close together (especially to those minority religions who are not tolerated by the state)
Well, now things are different, as Baptists and other protestant churches in America probably have real influence (and would be on the winning side if religion and state would unite )

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Odin


Actually, church attendance in Western Europe is much lower than in the US, so attitudes about religion in the public sphere is not the only reason.

Oh, and I find it funny that Babtists, who 200 years ago were the biggest supporters of seperation of church and state, are now crazy fundies who want to turn the US into a theocracy.

Probably cause they dont think banning gay marriage and abortions, or even teaching creationism, are the hallmarks of theocracy.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
you mean the religious right that didn't exist 20 years ago?

They were just as religious, they just didnt vote rightwing. Most fundies were southerners, working class, or both, and most voted Democrat. Following both regional tradition and class interest. Why wouldnt a working class fundie have voted for FDR? They started to veer away with the civil rights revolution, and then with the cultural conflicts that emerged in the post war period, esp since the 1960's.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


Let's see, one of the foremost persecutors of the church shows up on the Christian doorstops to convert, testifying he has seen the risen Christ appear to him.

I think that counts as having some contact with Christ.

Now, the reason why I assume he is quoting correctly, is because he quotes word for word what Matthew and Mark say about the two becoming one flesh.

basar echad - thats straight from berei****, which Saul/Paul certainly knew, although he seems to follow the Gospel interpretation of it.

[DanS]

Oh, and I find it funny that Babtists, who 200 years ago were the biggest supporters of seperation of church and state, are now crazy fundies who want to turn the US into a theocracy.

The separation of church and state is a modern concept that has little to do with the US political system. Some people of the time were against the government establishment of religion, so we have prohibitions against that. They were all for religion establishing government, as George Washington made clear.

[Alexander's Horse]

I don't doubt that religious observance has always been a big part of American life. The point is it has fallen away dramatically in other Western countries over the past half century.

[Jon Miller]

its because we don't have the history of state run churchs...

JM

[Alexander's Horse]

that could have a lot to do with it

[Dr Strangelove]

Originally posted by Proteus_MST


Perhaps both something to do with the reasons for many people to come to america:
"Being persecuted in Europe because of their religion"

200 years ago where the memory of this persecution was still fresh in the Baptists who came to america, and they (understandably) wanted strict separation of church and state, as they knew which could happen if church and state work too close together (especially to those minority religions who are not tolerated by the state)
Well, now things are different, as Baptists and other protestant churches in America probably have real influence (and would be on the winning side if religion and state would unite )

Actually the Baptists were founded in Massachusetts and were forced to flee to Rhode Island to escape persecution by the Puritan churches in the Bay colony. The Baptists objected to the enslavement of the native americans. Eventually they were forced south, where they became staunch proponents of enslavement of the American negro.

After the American revolution a number of states did indeed attempt to establish state religions. The adoption of the Constitution and its Bill of Rights reversed this trend, as state legislatures followed the example of the national governm,ent. One by one states nullified the statutes establishing their state churches.