Unscientific survey of 'poly religious beliefs

[MRT144]

yeah, wouldnt we be in for a shock if god was just essence?

[Japher]

I think we're all going to be in for a shock, no matter what. Only MtG will die and go, "Yup, this is exactly how I imagined it."

[MRT144]

MtG probably wont die.

[Brent]

Aww, people will percieve the afterlife however they believed it would be at first. Not sure about those who don't believe there is one, though.

[Tassadar500]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


Chabad dinners with kugel
Camp gan
reading the Tanya
reading the tanya instead of say, the Talmud
Or instead of a standard Kabbalistic text
Or instead of a standard Chassidic text
Actually believing the rebbe is moshiach
Putting up a picture of the rebbe on the eastern wall of a room where you daven
Appreciating what the rebbe did for lost souls
trying do something for lost souls ourselves
appreciating what all of judaism has to offer

you think liberals are down on Chabad??? you should see what some mainstream O jews say. Liberal Jews at least dont consider Chabad heretics

Actually, I totally agree with all of your statements.

[Tassadar500]

Originally posted by Whaleboy


Liberal jews would only consider someone who posted leaflets arguing against God, Zionism and non-intermarriage, caused three Chedar teachers to leave and screwed a girl in a storage cupboard in the Synagogue to be a heretic. Fortunately, I'd accomplished all of these by the age of 16 and was duly dismissed, thus saving me an hours road trip every weekend .

This really isn't anything to be proud of.

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Whaleboy
Liberal jews would only consider someone who posted leaflets arguing against God, Zionism and non-intermarriage, caused three Chedar teachers to leave and screwed a girl in a storage cupboard in the Synagogue to be a heretic. Fortunately, I'd accomplished all of these by the age of 16 and was duly dismissed, thus saving me an hours road trip every weekend .

[Ben Kenobi]

You rang?

[Sava]

its about time BK made an appearance

[Ben Kenobi]

1. If God exists, then God is omnipotent, omniscient, and morally perfect.
2. If God is omnipotent, then God has the power to eliminate all evil.
3. If God is omniscient, then God knows when evil exists.
4. If God is morally perfect, then God has the desire to eliminate all evil.
5. Evil exists.
6. If evil exists and God exists, then either God doesn't have the power to eliminate all evil, or doesn't know when evil exists, or doesn't have the desire to eliminate all evil.
7. Therefore, God doesn't exist.

1. True. I won't challenge that.

2. Also true, if God is omnipotent, then he can eliminate all evil should he choose to do so.

3. Also true. We are told that sin grieves God.

4. True If God is morally perfect then he has the desire to eliminate evil.

The problem with eliminating evil altogether, means he must also kill all sinful human beings. So it is not true that even though God wants to eliminate all evil, that he must do so now.

If he loves us, then his love for us must counterbalance his desire to eliminate evil for a time.

5. Also true

6. Nope. God can refrain from acting to eliminate evil now, while planning to eliminate evil later without coming to a contradiction in terms.

[Ben Kenobi]

Busy with my mom for the weekend. She went to church with me for the first time since I was small.

A Catholic church no less.

[Ben Kenobi]

In that sense evangelical christianity and militant secularism are two sides of the same coin to me - they think religion is a set of doctrines, something you can prove or disprove in an argument - even in a poly thread.

I would rather, ask you to look at what evangelical protestants say, rather than what others say about them.

Evangelisation is more about an invitation rather than boiling down all of what faith is to a set of doctrines. You are calling to the knowledge that the person already has about God, rather than thrusting all the teachings of the church down someone's throat.

[Sava]

You are calling to the knowledge that the person already has about God, rather than thrusting all the teachings of the church down someone's throat.

one in the same!

[Provost Harrison]

Originally posted by Ben Kenobi


1. True. I won't challenge that.

2. Also true, if God is omnipotent, then he can eliminate all evil should he choose to do so.

3. Also true. We are told that sin grieves God.

4. True If God is morally perfect then he has the desire to eliminate evil.

The problem with eliminating evil altogether, means he must also kill all sinful human beings. So it is not true that even though God wants to eliminate all evil, that he must do so now.

If he loves us, then his love for us must counterbalance his desire to eliminate evil for a time.

5. Also true

6. Nope. God can refrain from acting to eliminate evil now, while planning to eliminate evil later without coming to a contradiction in terms.

Here's a little thought for you Ben Kenobi - if God is all powerful, is he powerful enough to tie a knot so tight that he himself cannot untie. If that is the case he is not omnipotent, and if it is not the case, the same applies...so what do you say to omnipotence being paradoxical?

[Whaleboy]

God does not have the power to do anything ungodlike.

Like humans for instance?

God wants people to find Him for themselves.

What if I find a God that doesn't want to be found? That is, after all, the conclusion of any god who cannot cause the ungodlike, causing a knowability paradox.

God does not engineer evil, but He does allow evil

But isn't God supposed to be omnipotent? Allowing things one cannot control is a measure of finite power, if one is omnipotent then to allow something to happen is to will it to happen no?

yeah, wouldnt we be in for a shock if god was just essence?

Existence precedes essence, so I'll spare you the ontological argument .

This really isn't anything to be proud of.

I guess I was just too liberal

The problem with eliminating evil altogether, means he must also kill all sinful human beings. So it is not true that even though God wants to eliminate all evil, that he must do so now.

But according to your church, where evil exists within humans, the human is salvagable into a good person no? Unless God seeks retribution that is, as opposed to the elimination of evil. Is that after all not the point of the drive to save souls, and the Church's insistence that accepting Jesus and renouncing sin renders you a Good Person (TM)? For your argument to hold, "evil doers" would need to be essentially evil.

Nope. God can refrain from acting to eliminate evil now, while planning to eliminate evil later without coming to a contradiction in terms.

But isn't evil supposed to be self-contained, in quanta of sins, as opposed to some cosmological construction. Would God not be able to act to prevent human sin, while allowing the lord god pu... i mean satan to exist. Or does God see things in terms of necessary evil, so that in the long term, evil isn't really evil, so the stuff about redemption and salvation is basically crap... an evangelical play on someones guilt?

Evangelisation is more about an invitation rather than boiling down all of what faith is to a set of doctrines. You are calling to the knowledge that the person already has about God, rather than thrusting all the teachings of the church down someone's throat.

That's more marketing than anything, the intention is to get people to subscribe to that philosophy is it not? The basic evangelist sales pitch is to describe Christ as a historical figure, an ethical philosopher or perhaps some metropolitan "lifestyle guru", and then show the "urgent need" for Christ in the world, using what the victim knows of God to ascribe itself to God and Christ, and out the window goes the doubt, the inquiry and the logic that one would normally expect to accompany a philosopher, a historical figure.