Unscientific survey of 'poly religious beliefs

[Tassadar500]

Originally posted by MOBIUS


I agree, the fact that people can still believe in god(s) in the 21st century amazes the hell out of me - it just defies all logic...

You know, coming from a person like you, this means nothing.

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison
That is the worst cop out I have ever heard You have just amply demonstrated what a bunch of sh*t theism is for all to see...

So it's not a cop out, he's shown us what we knew all along - maybe even Winston is beginning to 'see the light'...

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by Lord Nuclear


You know, coming from a person like you, this means nothing.

What exactly is 'a person like me'?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison


What is there to imagine, it is a simple paradox that most definitely applies in this situation. Don't evade the question...

Ah, it is a paradox, grasshopper!!!

So we define omnipotence as still subject to logic. So G-d cant make a knot He cant untie. To put it another way, he cant change HIS essential nature. Maybe. More deeply you could ask - can G-d commit suicide? What would that mean? What would it be like? What does this tell us about our concept of G-d? Of the eternal? And how does reflecting on this change the way we ACT? What do we do differently if G-d cant commit suicide but we CAN? Can we still call him greater than us? In what way? What does this tell us about what greatness means to us? What does our talk of omnipotence tell us about what POWER means to us? Is about the ability to reconcile logical opposites? Is it about self destruction? Is it about killing? Is it about love?

[Tassadar500]

Someone childish enough to put "Ming is a ***" in their signature, and keeping it their permanently.

[child of Thor]

Originally posted by Bill3000
This thread lowers my IQ just by reading it.

can we test this? it might be fun

Anyway if you have a real religious belief, doesn't IQ becomes over rated?

I wonder if there is a pattern between IQ rateing and religious belief? Then again isn't the IQ test much to do with abstract thought process - although 'God' is a pretty abstract thought?

[MOBIUS]

Originally posted by Lord Nuclear
Someone childish enough to put "Ming is a ***" in their signature, and keeping it their permanently.

Do you know why I put it there? I doubt it. It was a protest about Ming being soft on homophobic posters and letting them get away with some pretty insulting stuff...

Maybe you should ask why it was allowed to remain for so long?

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by Provost Harrison


What is there to imagine, it is a simple paradox that most definitely applies in this situation. Don't evade the question...

Its a word game, based on a particular view of what omnipotent means. Jewish mysticism doesnt see G-d as omnipotent in quite that way - in order to do things a certain way (create the world) certain other things HAD to happen - certain imperfections in the universe had to take place - our goal is through spiritual practices to repair the world, and eliminate those imperfections. Yet we still use words like "omnipotent" - just as we speak of God's hand, yet we dont expect Him to, say, need to clip his fingernails. Its a metaphor, to reach human understanding. Some metaphors that were needed in 500 BC we dont need anymore - some we still do need as an aid to reflection - but these metaphors must be seen as such, as symbols, as poetry. You can no more logic chop a faith of this kind than you can poetry - yet, like poetry, this still is a mechanism for struggling with truth - a different way than logic - (which is not to say you cant ALSO use logic in conjunction, just as you can with poetry - but not ALL of the teaching of religion is accesible to logic, just as not all of poetry is) Ordinary religionists, like their secular opponents, get caught up in the literal meanings of the symbols - mystics often use weird, unfamiliar symbols to break us out of these cliched ways to thinking. Some mystics aspire to get beyond symbols - Im not sure if they ever succeed.

[child of Thor]

Originally posted by MOBIUS


I agree, the fact that people can still believe in god(s) in the 21st century amazes the hell out of me - it just defies all logic...

You read the Mabinogion Mobius? all good welsh should, while not a religious text it does paint a very weird picture to our not to distant past

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by lord of the mark


Ah, it is a paradox, grasshopper!!!

So we define omnipotence as still subject to logic. So G-d cant make a knot He cant untie. To put it another way, he cant change HIS essential nature. Maybe. More deeply you could ask - can G-d commit suicide?

Alternatively, you could ask - how could G-d NOT commit suicide after Auschwitz? How could He live with Himself?With his creation? With the humiliation in front of His people, and all mankind? Perhaps we was DOOMED to eternal life. Perhaps he is suffering. Perhaps THIS is the divine suffering in which redemption can be found (sorry, Ben). And if we rush to say (as most will, I suspect) that this is absurd, what does THIS tell us about our categories, and our faith?

Note - I mainly have questions, and few answers.

[lord of the mark]

BTW - i heartily approve of Paradox. Now if i can only get my stability rating back up, improve my infrastructure

[Tassadar500]

Originally posted by MOBIUS


Do you know why I put it there? I doubt it. It was a protest about Ming being soft on homophobic posters and letting them get away with some pretty insulting stuff...

Maybe you should ask why it was allowed to remain for so long?

I know why he let you keep it, evidently you don't.

[Moral Hazard]

Perhaps he is suffering. Perhaps THIS is the divine suffering in which redemption can be found (sorry, Ben).

This intrigued me but confused me. The rest of it I got.

I wonder if there is a pattern between IQ rateing and religious belief? Then again isn't the IQ test much to do with abstract thought process - although 'God' is a pretty abstract thought?

There is. Definitely true with education. It Doesn't of course mean athiests are smart.

[Brent]

Maybe no one would still believe in God if He didn't exist?

No being can ultimately cease to exist. Death applies only to mortality.

All things are possible, but only through the most natural possible means. Omnipotence could be said to be relative. People need simple explanations before they can handle complete ones.

Evil is allowed in order to justify the punishment of evildoers. Evil does grieve God.

[Moral Hazard]

Evil is allowed in order to justify the punishment of evildoers. Evil does grieve God.

As a Theist; I have to say that is a terrible answer. Unfortunately my answer to the question of evil. Takes more time than I currently have. In honesty I'm a little fuzzy on the details.