Second Front Feedback

[Shadowstrike]

quote: Originally posted by Captain Nemo on 10-10-2000 05:23 PM Of course I wanted the human player to throw all the British units at Caen, as Monty did, and suffer huge casualties, as he did... You weren't supposed to take the City! The text is perfectly historical: Several operations (Epsom being one) and a major air bombardment were expended on Caen. Monty promised several times to take it and failed. Even the famous "Wittmann engagement" at Villers-Bocage was part of the action as it took place when the British 7th armored division tried to sweep around the West side of the city and attack it from the South but ran into the Tigers of the LSAH 1st SS-Panzerdivision on the way. I had provisions and a reward in the events for the British taking the city before July 9...but not THAT long before. It took me a massive effort to dislodge the Germans around July 7 or 8 and expected others to perform about the same... This scenario is very "touchy" from a historical standpoint as it relies on a series of historical events unfolding close to the real timeline (Similar to Spartacus) and can get thrown off track if you divert too far from it. It was a difficult choice but I decided for the more historical path which could teach players a few things about the Battle for Normandy.

That should explain my "Waterloo" on the British Beaches. I captured Andromanches and the two cities to the east of it quickly, but the Panzers made short work of my gains and I was left with only Andromanches, while the American Front smashed itself. I captured a few cities only to lose them again soon.

BTW, Nemo, did you intend for the landing craft to go back to Britain and get reinforcements? That seemed unrealistic to me...

[Xin Yu]

Captain Nemo: Trouville and Honfleur are both within paradrop range and weakly defended. However Trouville is closer to where you can land so it is better.

I'll restart without using the gliders. This time I'll

a) use the 'fleet' trick to land my troops to the shore;
b) use combat engineers to disarm the batteries;
c) use rangers/commandos to infiltrate (i.e., bypass cities) to the hedgerow terrain and fortify them;
d) land other troops and occupy fortresses;
e) finally, throw artilleries to target cities via roads.

[Case]

I was able to capture Carentan on D-Day. Does this mean that I can't get the Utah-Omahah link up tech in part 2?

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If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error
-John Kenneth Galbraith
[This message has been edited by Case (edited October 11, 2000).]

[Captain Nemo]

Case:
I tried to cover all the cities that could be captured on D-Day with the D-Day events. Carentan is defended by a Command Post that should be virtually impossible to kill until part 2... How did you do it?
The limited size of the event files only let me put so much in each part. A few city captures span multiple parts: Bayeux is in both part 1 & 2... Carentan is in Part 2 & 3... Caen in 4, 5 & 6 etc.
Do not worry too much: If you get too far ahead of schedule and miss technologies like the Omaha-Utah link-up what should happen is a partial reduction in reinforcements for the 2-3 next parts, which should slow down your offensive and force you to get back in synch with the scenario masterplan... theoretically!

Xin:
Sounds like an excellent plan! I will add a historical timetable in the Readme for those who want to stay faithful to history or want to make sure they don't perform "Too Well".

All:
I am interested in hearing how such a "historically inflexible" scenario rates. I spent a LOT of time reading up on this campaign and there are 100s of events in scenario that are direct historical tie-ins... Is it worth it or would an open slugfest with a historical starting point be more fun?

[Jim Winchell]

Due to time constraints, I'm slowly working my way through turn 2 of the game at about 1 or 2 turns a night, usually when my wife is occupied by the Lifetime Movie Network.

The only comment so far, is that having all of the units appear in the help menu would be a plus. That way the player has some idea of what the strengths of his units are and what is he is going up against. If this was intentionally worked into the game as part of some fog of war, then having combat engineers being built in a city in England or appearing via events like commandoes is a must. I've wiped out almost all of my engineers attacking bunkers which have a combat strength greater than 0.

[DarthVeda]

So when do we get RedFront 1.941?

[Captain Nemo]

Jim:
Combat engineers will appear later in the game (Part 3?)
How would you have units appear in the Civilopedia without risking that the AI disbands them? I think an "impossible"/"not yet achieved" tech prerequisite does cause the AI to disband those units in favor of units that can be built... I had the problem in the American Civil War scenario until I used no, nil.
I know what you mean about Lifetime... funny.

Darthveda:
If I started today it would take me at least 3 months... There is a tremendious amount of work to be done.

Others:
Here are my choices for my next project, if I decide to do it (Sorry, no garantees, I'm somewhat burned out after this massive effort). Please vote!!

Red Front 1.941 (New map): 0
Stalingrad 1942 (Urban warfare): 0
Finnish-Soviet War (Finnish side): 0
Ardennes 1944 (American side): 0
France 1940 (German side): 0
Afrikakorps (British or German?): 0
Battle of Britain (British side): 0

I will only consider a WWII era scenario, forget ancient Persia, Greece or the Roman empire (There are people more competent than me in that area)

Please respond by copying the paragraph above and add your vote to the tally!

[Sten Sture]

quote: Originally posted by Jim Winchell on 10-12-2000 01:14 PM The only comment so far, is that having all of the units appear in the help menu would be a plus.... That way the player has some idea of what the strengths of his units are and what is he is going up against...

Jim - because of the disbanding feature Capt Nemo mentions the help menues are going to be impossible. I usually print out a copy of the units and terrains info from the rules.txt or keep a copy open on the desktop for reference. That did give me a minor cheat in finding out that there weren't any Uboats lurking in the Channel, but in general it would be the info that is usually in the help screen.

BTW - anyone that is thinking about "rem"ing out the no negotiations in the events.txt to share maps in the first turn - don't try it! The Airforce won't share maps anyway and now the Luftwaffe is at war with the Germans! Oye. I now return the opening map issues in the capable hands of CINCSF Nemo.

[Sten Sture]

Stalingrad 1942 (Urban warfare)

My first choice. Since there has yet to be a similar scenario, a ground breaking design effort requires your level of expertise. I only worry that because of the significant graphic changes that would be needed, it will require a lot of your time. At least with RF1.941 most of that work is done.

[Cal]

Nemo, what about that "Battle of the Bulge" scenario from the Germans side someone suggested a while ago?

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The strategically impaired,
-Cal

[MagyarCrusader]

Any scenario playable from the Axis side. Just add my vote to the Axis scenario that gets the most votes.

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"There is no more illustrious history than the history of the Magyar Nation... The whole civilized world is indebted to Magyarland for its historic deeds."
-Theodore Roosevelt, to the Hungarian Parliament,
April 2, 1910

[Cal]

Yes, two huge WW2 scenarios from Captain Nemo about just a part of the conflict, and both have been from one of the Allies point of view. I think an Axis view of the war as told through the medium of a civ2 scenario with the word "Front" in the title is in order.

On the other hand though... I really want to see this new map for Red Front, with the changes, it could turn out to be even better than Red Front 1.4

How many more civ2 scenarios on these subjects do you plan to do in your lifetime, Captain Nemo?

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The strategically impaired,
-Cal

[klesh]

Stalingrad: 1942!

This is another oppertunity for you, Captain Nemo, to totally revolutionize the world of the scenario. I would like to see one 'big boy' scenario playable as the Axis, namely Germany. "War on Two Fronts: '44-'45 could work too. Try to stem the waves of Soviet, American and British armies. A try to hold on situation with the Reich crumbling in fron of your eyes.
But again, I must vote for Stalingrad. So many reasons:
Mamayev Hill,
Pavlov's house- More German casualties taking this house than in taking Paris.
Red October, Barricades and Tractor Plants
Gorokhov, Ludnikov and Zukov Bridgeheads
Indusrial, Central and Suburban areas of the city
The Soviet resupply across the Volga
The Soviet artillery across the Volga, you could have them simmilar to the costal batteries in SF, but have them be a seperate Civ so as to prevent sending shells into "cities" across the Volga. Make the Artillery Civ's cities look like Cannons and Katushas and only give them the tech for building rockets and shells.

I would want to play as the Germans, against a heavily defensive AI. Basically throw waves of troops to try to break and devide the city.
Since it has been said that in Stalingrad, the kilometer was replaced by the meter as a unit of measure (or something like that) ZOC could play a major part in this.

So many areas for inovation, but a hard and long journey for a scenario author. Good luck!

Stalingrad: 1942!

[Cal]

which side would be playable in the stalingrad scenario?

[klesh]

quote: Originally posted by Captain Nemo on 10-12-2000 02:06 PM Please respond by copying the paragraph above and add your vote to the tally!

Red Front 1.941 (New map): 0
Stalingrad 1942 (Urban warfare): 2
Finnish-Soviet War (Finnish side): 0
Ardennes 1944 (American side): 0
France 1940 (German side): 0
Afrikakorps (British or German?): 0
Battle of Britain (British side): 0



[This message has been edited by Field Marshal Klesh (edited October 13, 2000).]