Second Front Feedback

[Case]

Nemo, could you put out a list of when cities should fall? In part 2 I followed my orders to cut of Cherbourg and after a massive (and very expencive) struggle captured Carteret and Barneville in the very last turn of part 2. However, It seems I missed out on the "Cherbourg Isolated" tech as the part 3 instructions indentify these cites as the objective

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If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error
-John Kenneth Galbraith

[Cal]

Yes... a list would really help, I've captured both Le-Haye-du-Puit and Coutainville, but I have this nagging feeling that I might be doing too well for the game. Very unlike Red Front.

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The strategically impaired,
-Cal

[Captain Nemo]

I will include a list of historical objectives and dates in the readme for the revised version. Also I will try to make it even more difficult to get ahead of schedule... BTW there is nothing wrong with not getting the objectives on time or getting them too early, that's part of the game! Just need to collect all the feedback first. I will also add a quick rundown on those dates here tomorrow.

Cutting off Cherbourg is the objective "to drive towards" in part 2 but should only be achievable in part 3 or 4

Villers-Bocage is a minor objective that was taken as a part of the encirclement attempt around Caen... Doesn't affect the scenario a lot.

Here are a few:

Part 1:
-5 beaches
-Pointe du Hoc
-Arromanches (Mulberry)
-Port-en-Bessin (US-UK link)
-Colleville draw

Part 1 or 2:
-Bayeux

Part 2 or 3:
-Carentan (Omaha-Utah link-up)
-Villers-Bocage

Part 3 or 4:
-Portbail
-Carteret
-Carpiquet Airfield

Part 5:
-Cherbourg
-Cherbourg AFB
-Carpiquet Airfield

Part 6:
-Caen

Part 7:
-St Lo

Part 8:
-Bernay

Part 9:
-Coutances
-Avranches
-Pontaubault Airfield

Part 10 or 11:
-Mortain
-Domfront
-Argentan
-Falaise
+ All the other German cities!
[This message has been edited by Captain Nemo (edited October 15, 2000).]

[Cal]

Oh... I took VIllers-Bocage in Part 2 and saw no events pop up to the effect of "Monty captures Villers-Bocage in an attempt to encircle Caen" so I thought I did it too early...

Hmm... I think... I shall have to start over for a 4th time now.

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The strategically impaired,
-Cal

[Xin Yu]

quote: Originally posted by Captain Nemo on 10-11-2000 01:07 PM Great strategy Xin... I used the same idea later in the game (You can figure when)

Captain Nemo: Did you mean that you used caravans to form a circle and protect cities in England? I'm half way through part 1 (turn 4) and it's time to consider protecting the cities. The question is: which cities do they prefer to attack?

I have grouped my troops into 4 'fleets'. Temporarily I gave up the American beach and concentrated the forces to the other targets. Expect to clear out the beach batteries by turn 5. The best landing place is a fortress square next to a city. After one turn the city has no defending troops (all were used to attack my beach head fortress). Next time I'll put more heavy artillaries in this fleet. Ideal landing spots are rare

Maybe I should use my bombers to clear out some fortified positions so the the German troops will go to the beach and be targets of my cruisers.

It seems that part 4 is the most difficult since air superiority is hampered. Starting from part 5 you can build airbase and the range of the bombers are increased.

German infantry units are not as good in later parts, but armors are better and better.

[Evil Capitalist]

Is it legal to rush build Mulburries?

[Captain Nemo]

OK here is my revised objective list

Part 1:
-5 beaches
-Pointe du Hoc
-Arromanches (Mulberry)
-Port-en-Bessin (US-UK link)
-Colleville draw
-Bayeux

Part 2:
-Bayeux
-Carentan (Omaha-Utah link-up)

Part 3:
-Carentan (Omaha-Utah link-up)
-Villers-Bocage
-Portbail
-Carteret

Part 4:
-Caen
-Villers-Bocage
-Portbail
-Carteret
-Carpiquet Airfield

Part 5:
-Caen
-Portbail
-Carteret
-Carpiquet Airfield
-Cherbourg
-Fontenay

Part 6:
-Caen
-Carpiquet Airfield
-Cherbourg
-Cherbourg AFB

Part 7:
-Caen
-Cherbourg
-Cherbourg AFB
-St Lo

Part 8:
-Bernay
-St Lo
-Coutances

Part 9:
-Coutances
-Avranches
-Pontaubault Airfield

Part 10:
-Avranches
-Pontaubault Airfield
-Mortain
-Domfront
-Argentan

Part 11:
-Mortain
-Domfront
-Argentan
-Falaise
+ All the other German cities!

Evil Capitalist: No issue with speed building the Mulberry wonder.

Xin Yu: I'll let you figure out how to minimize the impact of V-1 attacks on England... It's not an immediate disaster just a long term drain on your forces.

Cal: Villers-Bocage is not a critical objective, don't start over.

To all: The game can be won without getting all the objectives in the exact order/parts listed above. The impact of not getting a specific objective is not getting one of the advantages that come with it. Some are more valuable than others... Of course not getting any at all will result in a total collapse of your campaign.

[Cal]

Captain Nemo: Err... too late for that, already did, but I'm doing well, now. The trick is to not lose any planes and to destroy as many luftwaffe planes as possible, then you'll never be caught unable to make an airstrike.

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The strategically impaired,
-Cal
[This message has been edited by Cal (edited October 16, 2000).]

[SunTzu]

Man that first day killed me. I had about 6 german cities about halfway through D-Day and towards the last few hours the germans just took city after city of mine. At the end of the first day i had 1 british city and 2 american cities in France. Then by the time my Reinforcements arrived, i only had the 2 american cities left in france. So hopefully my reinforcements will push back the germans. But i lost all of my Airforce cause well i didn't bring them back to their bases...i'm sure there are some Airbases in france? that i could land in or something....anyways GREAT SCN!

[Captain Nemo]

SunTzu: You are in trouble!
There will be Airbases in France but only once you have taken them from the Luftwaffe.
How many planes do you have left... There are very few Air Force reinforcements until part 6-7 and without an Air Force your ground troops will get overrun by the German Panzers!
How many key objectives did you hold at the height of D-Day? (Look at the technology screen, you get new technologies when you take one of the objectives)
With less than 5 your odds would be terrible to reverse the D-Day disaster.

[Cal]

The trick to outsmarting the V-1's... seems to be withdrawing all useful units from the cities they're attacking, and leave only infantry in them. That's what I did, anyway.

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The strategically impaired,
-Cal

[klesh]

Yeah SunTzu! Now I don't feel so bad!

I've almost stopped playing this beautiful scenario because of the stalemate I always end up with. I can take 5-8 objectives in the first part, but only be mercilessly pushing forward and loosing many units. Then, my firstwaves of reinforcements must be used to hold these cities, rather than to expand the footholds.
I find that my airforces are desimated early, and generally will loose to units on decent defensive terrain. The airforce doesn't seem to be as decisive as it should be. Well, but others are doing well with it. Hmmm, I am really having a difficult time with this one. Way more than RF. And because of the everpresent stalemate I always loose interest by part 2. I can't believe I just said that! I waited for so long for this to come out, and I've lost interest... I think I need me head checked!
Anyway, keep up those strats in the AoW forum, I'm gonna need 'em.
Thanks

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I am the Ukrainian Anti-Pope!
Großdeutschland!

[SunTzu]

I have no planes left!! they were taken out in my first 5 turns! i do have 15planes(bombers) but it won't let me use them. I have landed my reinforcements about 25units. with 30more coming. I have Bayeux and Pont-en-bassin that's all i have left. Here's what i did. At the beggining i took my paratroopers up towards the beaches to clear out the german infantry, and i took half of the Airborne and staled the Fallschmirgher. So since my airborne kept the fallschmirgher busy they didn't arrive to the beach till d-day was over.
Nemo: I had 6 cities at the height of my invasion. I've destroyed the 352nd German Infantry but the german panzers who completely wiped out the british army to the east of the american beachs, are coming towards my last 2 cities with the fallschmirghers on the outskirts of pont-en-bassin.
I'm gonna keep on playing and see if i can do a counterattack that i thought of. i only have 8 units in france atm
Wish me luck!

[Captain Nemo]

Well I am sorry to hear Second Front beat you Field Marshal... I thought that the higher degree of challenge would actually increase the satisfaction when you beat it? I certainly felt vindicated several times when I made brilliant strategic moves and outmaneuvered that nasty AI!

The keys:
To win the air battle, choose targets you CAN take out, not targets you WOULD LIKE to take out! NEVER accept to lose a plane... You will lose enough due to errors don't lose any on purpose.
USE the planes as "blockers" to isolate cities you want to take so the Germans can't reinforce them.

To defend against V-1s, since you cannot avoid getting your NEW units hit (They are built in the beginning of the turn) you can block access to the city (Brighton is the V-1s main target) with 8 fighters and defend it with 3-4 M3 w/AA guns when your planes have to land every 4 turns.
This is only worthwhile after you have fully capitalized on hunting down the German planes in part 1 and 2.

[klesh]

quote: Originally posted by Captain Nemo on 10-17-2000 08:44 PM I thought that the higher degree of challenge would actually increase the satisfaction when you beat it?

Oh...it will, it will.
But I've got to beat it first


Don't mind my whining, I'm just frustrated.