Second Front Feedback

[Captain Nemo]

Here is the place to post your War Stories from Normandy...and here are some of my highs and lows:

Highs:
-Getting past the Beach defenses on Omaha Beach.
-Blowing up that pesky 15cm battery in Ouistreham
-Having 4 B-24s from England arrive in the Caen area just as a column of Tigers are pulling up.
-Finally coming up with a winning strategy to push the SS-tanks out of Caen, after losing over 50 tanks on frontal assaults.
-Taking Cherbourg after an endless struggle
-Knocking out a TigerII with an M18 Hellcat (That's about impossible odds)
-Finally breaking out of the Hedgerow terrain

Lows:
-Having Wittmann knock out 10 defenders in Villers-Bocage over 3 turns and take the city despite every effort to hold it.
-Losing an LST full of tanks and artillery to a German coastal battery I thought was out of shells.
-Bombing a lowly German Infantry unit in the hedgerows only to find out (too late) that he was stacked with an 88mm AA gun.
-Flying a B-24 back to England and running out of fuel 2 squares from the airbase.
-Seeing a whole stack of tanks and APCs wither away in Normandy for lack of fuel while my convoys are held up by the Channel storms.
-Having Brighton bombed into oblivion by German V-1s destroying dozens of units.

[Eternal]

Well, I'm still downloading the files right now but I have one piece of praise: You said it would be out in September, and though it was a close one, you did! How unproffessional of you!

[Cal]

Well, I just tried playing the FW version, not really trying that hard, just to test it out.

I did horribly. First, I landed all my gliders next to some French city and wasted all my commandoes trying to capture it, all the gliders were wiped out in the German counter attack. After moving my first turn, a lot of my boats were destroyed by mines and shells, and the USS Texas battleship was sunk after the first turn, so Germany got a "Morale Boost", finally, the next turn where I got my planes close enough to actually attack something, I forgot I was controling two separate civilizations and I stacked my planes where I was going to land next turn.

At this point I turned the game off and decided I should whomp up a strategy before playing again. Great job, Captain Nemo!

One question though, all those non-AFB cities in Southern England, should I let them continue to produce the units they're already making? Should all the freights I build carry "Fuel"? And am I supposed to create transports in those cities to ferry them across the channel, or are they created by events, or is there something else?

Very good game, it may force me to read up about D-day so I know what actions to make, just like Red Front did.

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-Cal
[This message has been edited by Cal (edited October 02, 2000).]

[Leonidas]

I'm downloading the files now. I'll set everything up tomorrow and start playing it with the MGE, and let you know what I think.

Very well done Captain Nemo - I can't wait...

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Go tell the Spartans, passerby:
That here, obedient to their laws, we lie.

[Cal]

I'm still doing very poorly...

Second attempt, All my gliders STILL got destroyed by shells on the first turn, but I managed to land my commandoes safely.
My air forces near cherbourg and carentan were almost wiped out in 3 or 4 turns...
I lost a lot of transports and even a large transport to the beach mines.
I lost a lot of cruisers, destroyers, two battleships on turn 3, and at least 3 of the big transports to those shells that seem to appear out of nowhere...
Finding good spots for my troops to land is a problem, until I realized only the transports were vulnerable to the beach mines and the shells, so I dropped them on any costal rift that wasn't surrounded by barbed wire.
I captured my first French city on turn 4, a smal one with a population of 3... I'm going to try again tomorrow.

[Leonidas]

OK - I'm playing the MGE - and I set everything up per instructions, but on the first turn I received the message: "This program has performed an illegal operation and will be closed." So the entire game shut down and crashed I tried three times to start the game, and I received this message each time.

Any solutions?

[Cal]

Did you try moving the gliders as ordinary units? I think you're only supposed to paradrop to move them and then skip their turn with that space bar.

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The strategically impaired,
-Cal

[Jonicro]

This scenario is even better than i thought!

Only annoying thing is that i dont have FW and cant see the AI movement. Its not funny to get a report that your battleship is sunk and you dont even know what hit it.

One thing i specially like is that there are so many different types of infantry. But i think engineers are too strong. You can move them sometimes even 2 and still destroy bunker with only 1/3 of strenth.

Is there a house rule that when you take a city you have to put all your motor units supporting from that city so the fuel thing works? Atleast i havent seen this said anywhere...but i cant see how it would work without it because all units in landing have support from None and you wouldnt need fuel at all for them.

[Paul Hanson]

It`s so tough! I`ve restarted about 5 times now, but I keep losing 100+ units each turn! I`m hopeless!

[MagyarCrusader]

Great job with the scenario Nemo! I already like this one a hell of a lot more than Red Front (cuz I don't have to be the reds!)

I played a few turns last night and I'm about to continue the game, but I think I'm doing very poorly. I could a little strategic help on unit values. I know that BAR infantry is for attacking and the plain ol' infantry are for defending, while combat engineers and bazookas are great for attacking, but I do not know the strength of German units. For example, I see a lost of command posts and other building type German units. Am I supposed to attack these? I suffer massive casualties with no results. Also, how do I avoid the German coastal artillery shells? I've lost about all my battle ships and at least 5 of my big transports to those things. Third, what am I supposed to do with the Supply Trucks? I only skimmed the readme last night, so if any answers lay in there please let me know. I'd rather play the game than sit and read.

[C0ckney]

Played it for a few hours, and just have one thing to say.

Bloody briliant Nemo!

also is there an easy version for crap people like me?

[Xin Yu]

Played a little bit and checked the rules.txt (not events.txt, Nemo said no ).

First, there is an Allied air force city which can use a fuel depot square. Using 'WLTKD' will get the city grow to a huge size. This should also apply to some of the Allied land force cities. Each population = 3 golds per turn if you hire the person as a taxmen.

Second, use the gliders wisely. Protect them carefully since they are the only hope for you to bypass the bad terrains on the beach. I haven't tested it but I think using gliders to carry engineers (partisan advantage) next to a city and attack immediately may be the best way to advance. The gliders can then enter the occupied city and can be reused two turns later. Meanwhile you can use planes to block the enemy's counter attack.

Gliders+Engineers can also eliminate the nasty batteries on the beach, along with the shells. This will give you a safe landing.

Gliders can also detect enemy units (hopefully include mines). The cursur will tell you where you can land, so the place you can't do paradrop must have an enemy unit.

[Cal]

I can never get the gliders to paradrop again once I've done it once... what am I doing wrong?

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The strategically impaired,
-Cal

[Captain Nemo]

This is FUN!

I apologize for the somewhat limited readme in this first version and as I read these messages I see what points I need to add.

First for Leonidas: Has anyone had the same problem with MPG? I mostly played FW and just played 2 rounds of MPG to make sure it worked and did not encounter any problems... Give me any suggestions.

1. Do not change the production of British cities unless you plan to produce cash for the rest of the game... Production orders for all British cities should remain unless you determine you need cash more than units because you can't reverse it.

2. Beside units built in the cities you will get free reinforcements based on accomplishments (Techs) in the Campaign.

3. Early on most of you units have "None" as Home town because I didn't want the supply problems to start until the days after the invasion. All reinforcements will have British home cities and will soon wipe out all production unless they are reassigned to French cities... Then the Fuel trucks become critical... I have thought of raising the support to 3 fuel each. Let me know if that would be too tough. As Xin said, most of the British cities will grow to size 30-40 by the end of the game... But then there might be a lot of units to support too.

4. The starting LST transports are the ONLY transports you will get except for much later in the game. Don't let them get blown to pieces or your reinforcements will be stuck in England. The LCVPs are expendable. MPG players who cannot see the action need this hint: the German coastal batteries fire deadly shells at anything bigger than an LCVP...They will kill your Battleships AND DON'T bring the LSTs in to the coast until the Coastal Batteries (15cm and 210mm) are eliminated. You can make a transfer at sea between LSTs and LCVPs to "refill" the LCVPs once they have delivered the first waves. Note that all the BIG SHIPS are outside of the coastal battery range in the starting position but only by a few squares in some areas...

5. The Gliders were typically wasted anyway after they landed... Just get the Commandos out ("Unload" them like a ship) and into the hedgerows where they can defend themselves... The gliders will be reused for other units as will most of the D-Day specific units (DD-tanks, Crocodiles, LCVPs) in part 2 so don't grow too attached to them, Xin!

6. Engineers are "Partisans" so they have a special capability against Bunkers and the like... But pretty useless against other types of units. They have a good shot at the weaker bunkers if they can get up next to them. But the terrain on which the bunker is built makes a big difference.

7. The game is very tough (By design)and requires a very systematic strategy to get past the beaches. I have lost 100 units+ also in my first tries. A blind unorganized assault will definitely be repelled by the Germans... and you haven't seen their REAL tanks yet!!

8. German fixed defenses are 15cm and 210mm coastal guns which house "missile units" (Shells) to sink your ships. Kill them with Flamethrowers (Engineers). The other bunkers and command posts are tough stationary units to block your advance. Coordinated assaults with Heavy artillery, M7s and Engineers can clear them at a high cost but also they pose less of an offensive threat. Just preventing you from advancing.
Bazookas can take out German armored vehicles up to a certain size and can be used against infantry.
Rangers have IZOC and can get through the rough terrain.
The part 1 strategy is to capture as many of the D-Day objectives as possible. Look at your science screen at the end of each turn to see when you have been awarded a new tech... There are about 10-12 of them achievable on D-Day... maybe 40-50 for the entire game Some will start producing new units as soon as you capture them (Look for sudden unexplained units in British cities)

9. The beach mines are easy to eliminate but if you don't, they could sink half of your first wave... I sacrifice a few destroyers in the first rounds to get most of them cleared.

[Cal]

I found out this little strategy while trying to get the "perfect" first turn.

If you land all your gliders right next to Langrune, you can take that city right away if you get lucky, then your normally stationary gliders can be moved inside that city, the only problem is that if you do this, all of your gliders and wounded commandoes get blown to hell by a vast array of 15 and 210 mm costal shells, and the city gets recaptured... maybe waiting for the air force to strike first would make this attack work better.

Oh wait, I see that Captain Nemo intended the gliders to be wasted just to get the commandoes behind enemy lines; I guess I won't have to worry anymore. Never mind.

One more thing...

"This little episode repeated itself 100s of times in my testplay, often to the Germans advantage until I figured out how to deal with it... But that's for me to know and for you to die!"

This passage terrified me...

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The strategically impaired,
-Cal