Second Front Feedback

[Stefu]

FINNISH-SOVIET WAR!

[Cal]

...y'know, this should probably have it's own topic.

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The strategically impaired,
-Cal

[Jonicro]

RF 1.941, but Stalingrad would be a great too.

[Cal]

Hmm... I seem to be the only one against a Stalingrad scenario. Stalingrad is a huge city, how could you show house to house fighting accurately, have a city for each house? How would you even decide what to name each house? It's very difficult to depict an actual fight in civ2... I think it would look unrealistic.

I'm saving my vote for awhile until Nemo gets the chance to answer all these questions.

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The strategically impaired,
-Cal

[Captain Nemo]

Just to summarize how I tally the above: I saw a couple of double votes RF + Stalingrad.

Red Front 1.941 (New map): 2
Stalingrad 1942 (Urban warfare): 2
Finnish-Soviet War (Finnish side): 1
Ardennes 1944 (American side): 0
Ardennes 1944 (German side): 1
France 1940 (German side): 0
Afrikakorps (British or German?): 0
Battle of Britain (British side): 0

I will start a new topic on this subject as this tread takes too long to load and many won't find hidden inside the SF topic.

Here are a few clarifications:

-Red Front, the map is made, 10% bigger than the original and much better proportionned. Harlan made it and assigned city populations, resources, industrial areas etc... from actual 1941 figures. Historically the map is 100% better than the original. Some terrain is changed as hills have been reintroduced and there is a new "mineral" terrain representing the rich Ural region metal, chemical and coal deposits. Bereza and oilfields are lost as separate terrain types. The tech tree will be beefed up and there will be more variety in units through the years of the war.

-Stalingrad: house to house fighting... yes each block would be a city but with no name and a hidden size. Again separate Civs for airforces but here I can let them be AI controlled since their role was not as critical as in Normandy (Hope to avoid the hotseat mode). Mostly infantry units to avoid the unrealistic aspect of having dozen of tanks inside one house. The scenario would cover the battle for the city of Stalingrad, not the broader campaign with the encirclement etc... I haven't chosen sides yet.
Soviets would be more interesting IMHO as they have the Volga bridges/resupply barges... This even has the potential of being a two sides scenario as the historical details of the actual battle are less known.
Special units: snipers, mortars, machine gun nests, a lot of different infantry types, light artillery.

-Battle of Britain:
Have a lot of good ideas here too. Human control of the RAF and Air defense network (Radar stations and Ack-ack guns). British population and industry represented by an AI producing no military units, just civilians, factories, trade trucks, cargo ships etc...
Human player owns just a handful of factories producing the airplanes and AA guns + fixed airbases (These are units with air carrying capability) across the UK. The Luftwaffe can destroy the airbases reducing the operating ranges of the RAF fighters as well as bomb the aircraft factories. AA guns can be placed in defensive lines to protect the British cities but can't be inside the cities since they are AI controlled.
Luftwaffe scores extra units/money for destroying factories, killing civilians, sinking ships and destroying airbases. If critical mass is reached (ie massive Luftwaffe superiority) an event triggers the release of 100 transport ships with German infantry from French channel ports...

As you can see I thought most about these 3.

This scenario building hobby of mine will end when CivIIs popularity falls off...release of Civ3?

[DarthVeda]

my votes on RF 1941

but for the ardennes, if you ever do that, you could have the player be both sides. Play as the Germans to their high tide, then take over as the Americans.

[Case]

quote: Originally posted by Captain Nemo on 10-12-2000 09:10 AM Case: I tried to cover all the cities that could be captured on D-Day with the D-Day events. Carentan is defended by a Command Post that should be virtually impossible to kill until part 2... How did you do it?

I did it about a week ago so this migh be wrong, but I think that I used a heavy artillery followed by a engineer and finished with a self propelled 105 howitzer



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If all else fails, immortality can always be assured by spectacular error
-John Kenneth Galbraith

[Captain Nemo]

Thanks Case, I need to correct such mistakes in the next version.

I would like to know how far anyone has gotten as far as timeframe. Has anyone encountered Wittmann yet? Has anyone had to deal with SS-Panthers and Tigers divisions?
Has anyone cut off the road to Cherbourg by reaching the Atlantic?

If anyone has a good screenshot of their game in progress could you E-mail it to me? I want to add the best screenshots of Second Front to another thread to show how the game progresses.

[Sibir]

Of course I played as the Soviets.

I found the scenario very detailed and pushed the Germans back losing only Stalingrad. I pulled all my forces back and let Stalingrad fall. I then regrouped and heavily fortified the remaining cities while I brought in reinforcements from the east. The Germans then wasted their units attacking my heavily defended cities while trying to defend Stalingrad. Within the next 15 turns I had retaken Stalingrad and pushed to Berlin since the Germans had frittered away all their army in the offensive.

As for your next scenario. I'm thinking kinda WWII-ish.

The October Revolution. Amid WWII, the Czarist Whites fighting the Bolshevik Reds. Spread this out across the map from the Mongol scenario by MicroProse and it'd be really cool. Events could include British and American reinforcements and the Czech Legion. Plus lots more.

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-Sibir Khan
Pronounced "Cyber" Khan
Proud to be an Arab-American

[Chris Kirchgasler]

I've made it to Cherbourg. To do this, though, I pulled back many of my forces simultaneously advancing towards St. Lo and the coast in the process. Now the Germans have pushed me back in the South, and though the peninsula is crumbling easily, Cherbourg stands immovable.

I'm wondering, if I don't reach Lessay, is Cherbourg impossible to take? I've been bombing it for six or seven turns now, and there seems to be no decrease in the amount of infantry in the city; in fact, it seems limitless.

I know you're prone to some strange programming events, Nemo, but if this is your idea of "challenge," then you've really outdone yourself this time. Here I am, scraping tooth and nail through monster of a scenario, just barely keeping up with your increasingly difficult goals -- now I've got to move on Cherbourg, St. Lo and the coast at once, and in the "proper" order? Oh me, oh my . . .

Yes, I've taken out Wittmann (twice), and I'm holding Villers Bocage and the Caen airfield. I'm about to mount my assault once my latest shipment of engineers arrive.

Life (and war) is hell in your world, Nemo. Still, I love the challenge.

Thanks.
[This message has been edited by Chris Kirchgasler (edited October 14, 2000).]

[Evil Capitalist]

I won't bore anyone with how well I'm doing, I've been slower than most to get going. However I have one question for Nemo- you had a spare civ, and didn't use it. Why didn't you make the batteries belong to that one civ, give them a city in deep Frnace, and stop the shells moving into cities?

[Captain Nemo]

Great idea... I did... It's the Kriegsmarine Civ!

[Evil Capitalist]

I mean exclusively batteries- the Kriegsmarine have several nearby cities to move the shells into. This can really screw up careful battery avoidance.

[Captain Nemo]

They actually only have one nearby city (Lion s/Mer)and of course the regular Germans also control some of the batteries and shells so the problem can't be totally averted.
Beside the advantage of keeping the shells in the batteries I have also forced some of the German beach defense forces to "stay" on the beaches by isolating them with a line of immobile "Widerstandnest" units of the opposite Civ right behind them. This isn't really apparent when you play the Allied side but the AI was very reluctant to leave units near the invasion areas, to the point of deserting Pointe du Hoc completely on the first turn, making it much too easy for the Allies to land.

[Cal]

Captain Nemo: I restarted again... and I bought a book on Operation Overlord to help me make every action follow the historical path. I have one question though, it says we're supposed to drive all the way to the coast to cut off cherbourg in part 2, but are we also supposed to take Villers-Bocage in part 2?

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The strategically impaired,
-Cal