New source for STD's in the US

[Sikander]

Originally posted by Alexander's Horse
Nor is toilet seats - watch out obiwan. Crabs can polevault.

"I got it from the toilet seat,
It jumped right up, and grabbed my meat!"

[Sikander]

Originally posted by obiwan18


What's the matter Mr. Fun?

He was stymied in his attempt to come up with a way to link this to hate crimes against homosexuals, or failing that the American Civil War.

[MRT144]

couldnt the birth control pill also be blamed?

[muppet]

Originally posted by obiwan18
Typical.
The correlation is between the number of abortions and the STD transmission rate. This increase is over and above the rate of population growth. What is also interesting is that the rate varies according to the different dates of legalisation, in that areas that were slow to legalise abortion, actually have lower STD rates.

Assuming a valid scientific method was employed, one cannot argue statistics; however, one can argue the validity of the conclusions. The correlation could also be attributed to accidental-parents having been at least partially removed from the dating pool due to parental activities; therefore, becoming a lesser statistical influence. The smaller percentage of irresponsible people will naturally have greater statistical influence.

The general conclusion is that abortion encourages people to have unsafe sex, resulting in greater STD transmission. I had thought this to be the case before, but I had no data to back me up.

You still have no data to back you up. My partner has always been, and always will be the primary encouragement irrespective of any laws that man may pass. The general conclusion is more a statement of the author's opinion than a valid scientific conclusion as the author cannot correctly profile the mentality, responsibility, ethical, or moral value of the individuals.

Irresponsible people engage in irresponsible sex, and are more prone to contracting STDs and to opt for abortion rather than parenthood. Irresponsible people then are recycled into the dating scene to engage in more irresponsible behavior.

Since more unsafe sex results in more abortions as well, it can be said that legalised abortion supplies its own market.

Since irresponsible people are more likely to engage in unsafe sex, irresponsible people can be said to supply the abortion market. Which is not the point of legalized abortion.

Irresponsible people may employ legalized abortion as their primary or exclusive method of birth control rather than deal with accidental parenthood. Responsible people may employ legalized abortion as the option of last resort when valid birth control methods have failed. Irresponsible people increase the demand for the abortion market. Responsible people are a smaller segment of the market.

Therefore, by criminilising abortion, you will reduce the number of abortions performed in the US, as well as reducing the rate of STD transmission.

Therefore by crimilizing abortion, responsible people, whom's pesonal values and morals are not at all similar to mine, may be punished. However, irresponsible people have always, and shall continue to have a greater infuence in the transmission of STD's.

That any clearer?

Yes. A compromise in the system would be more beneficial to society. Repeat offenders, male and female, could be sent to moral/ethics and sex education classes before and after an abortion. Responsible individuals should be given a break.
At the extreme, I'd rather have irresponsible repeat offenders sent to jail rather than have responsible people unduly punished.

[red_jon]

Surely backstreet abortions contain a great risk of spreading STDs?

Ubercrux - go find a nun and convince her to marry you

IMO People aren't going to stop having sex just because abortion becomes illegal. I can't imagine me or any of my friends (gay, straight, male or female) doing it any less.

And oral sex can also transmit many STIs - it could possibly become worse as people do oral more (people tend to use protection less when it is just oral sex). It isn't clear as to whether aids can be spread via oral sex, but harmful STIs such as syphillis can.

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Sikander


He was stymied in his attempt to come up with a way to link this to hate crimes against homosexuals, or failing that the American Civil War.

No, after reading the posts in here, I agree with some of the others who have stated this is not news. Obiwan is jumping up and down with excitement as if this is a revolutionary discovery.

[ThePantaloonDog]

The trouble with the study is what troubles a lot of other studies. People assume that because something increased in correlation with an increase in something else the two must be related. The problem with the reasoning that the legalisation of abortion causes more people to get STD's because they have more sex is that a variety of different causes could increase the amount of sex going on. The causes of increased sex could be the women's liberation movement, the greater freedom of homosexuals, and the fact that the baby boom generation was at sexual maturity all at the time that abortion was legalised are more likely to have caused the rise in STDs.

I doubt that people realized that now that abortions are legal they can go at it like rabbits. ABortions in our society aren't seen as getting your appendix removed and more than likely carry serious social and phsycological effects. This is just personal experience but most of the women who have abortions do it for fincial reasons and usually involves a deeply thought out and anguished decision.

[Sava]

This thread is what is known as a "false cause" argument fallacy. Perhaps the newer methods of birth control, the proliferation of contraceptives, and the realization that women can be in control of their sex lives have more to do with the increased amount of sexual activity. Also, STD's are identified and diagnosed more accurately and more often than in the past. Just because more STD's are reported now doesn't mean their occurance has increased among the population. Look at Africa for Pete's sake! Roe v. Wade doesn't affect Africans, and they have the highest rate of AIDS in the world.

Education stops the spread of STD's, not banning abortion.

[Inverse Icarus]

i dont know why but i read the title as "Open Source for STDs in the US" this time around

[MrFun]

Originally posted by Sava

Education stops the spread of STD's, not banning abortion.

I agree

[Dinner]

Obiwan: The person who wrote this study is simply noticing a corolation and not a cause and effect relationship. As numerous other people pointed out there are several major factors (population growth, changing societial norms resulting in more sex) which have not been controlled (and probably can't be effectively controlled for thus it is not in keeping with the scientific method to attribute the resulting increase in STDs solely to the rise in Abortion rates.

[Cyclotron]

Obiwan, I have five words for you:

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc.

[Ben Kenobi]

Obiwan is jumping up and down with excitement as if this is a revolutionary discovery.

Mr. Fun:

Revolutionary? I think I stated that I suspected this to be true, and it is nice to have one study reinforce these thoughts. Granted, it would be nice to have more, but this is a start.

Oerdin:

changing societial norms resulting in more sex

The question then becomes are abortions a symptom of this societal change, or a cause? I think they came about as a result of the shift, but that this study shows abortions pushing the shift somewhat further.

Education stops the spread of STD's

Some forms work better then others. Planned Parenthood's approach of use a condom every time is not working.

Just because more STD's are reported now doesn't mean their occurance has increased among the population.

Best point of the bunch. I don't know about the increase in reporting incidence, which will account for the perceived increase in STD's

Still interesting to see some varience depending on the date of abortion legalisation.

However, this data would be from the 1970's, so it is not that much older.

cyclotron:
I don't know Latin. Could you translate for a Latin dummy?

[Cyclotron]

It translates to:

After this, therefore because of this.

It is a classic fallacy, where an assumption is made that because A preceeds B, A caused B.

Watch for similar fallacies in your argument. Abortions become legal, then STDs increase... but that does not prove causation.

[Ben Kenobi]

Thanks cyclotron.

It's a hypothesis, more work needs to be done to see how big of an effect legalising abortion has on the STD rate. Still, I did provide a mechanism. Does it make sense at all to avoid the fallacy of correlation = causation?