The War Has Started!

[Master Zen]

Imran:

If this war is NOT about oil (and yes, there are many other reasons but oil is definitely one of them) then why has the US already gotten US and UK companies to take control of iraqi oil post-war?

Considering the business background of Bush and Cheney only serves to confirm this.

[Chemical Ollie]

Originally posted by Tiberius

You don't destroy the OPEC by leaving it, but flooding the market with irakian oil, thus breaking up the OPEC's price control.

I would love to see that happen, but doesn't a high market price on oil benefit W's friends in the Texan oil lobby?

[Imran Siddiqui]

Source?

I think those that chant 'War for Oil' are the naive ones. They just say 'look at their backrounds', like that solves all debates. One wonders if their hatred for Bush clouds their vision so.

[Master Zen]

[SIZE=1] Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

YES! What was the profit in Vietnam? Korea? You may think it naive, but American Presidents have always had idealism in their bones.

The 'War for Oil' mantra is a mindless slogan for those who wish to make Bush seem greedy and evil and can't open their eyes to see this isn't Gulf War I. To say that Bush is lead by oil and his oil friends, and then not realizing that more oil pumping would mean less profits by US oil companies (France has the biggest toe in the country right now and increased supply would hurt the oil companies who would have to reduce the inflated prices, caused by 'fears' of Iraq). [size]

Vietnam and Korea must be taken account in a different context. You seem to forget that the Cold War was behind this, and the Cold War was ultimately a battle of ideologies. US interest in fighting those wars was to prevent the spread of its rival ideology, communism.

This war is much different. Do you honestly think the Bush administration is not taking advantage of gobbling up that oil while takin out daddy's sworn enemy in the meantime?? Pleeease.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I would love to see that happen, but doesn't a high market price on oil benefit W's friends in the Texan oil lobby?

DING DING DING!!

This is the point the 'War for Oil' people totally ignore! Oil prices are artificially inflated after 9/11 playing on fears of fundy Muslims blocking oil. If more oil flooded onto the market, oil prices would be reduced drastically, and oil companies would LOOSE money.

Bush's 'friends' are living it up now. They don't want to see Iraq produce much more.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Source?

I think those that chant 'War for Oil' are the naive ones. They just say 'look at their backrounds', like that solves all debates. One wonders if their hatred for Bush clouds their vision so.

You think. That is not precisely an affirmative statement.

Why do you insist that oil is not an issue. Source? Is it so hard to accept that your country, like all others, is greedy?

[Ben Kenobi]

Jack:

Saving lives does not absolve you of the ones you killed.
How can you be sure that in killing someone, you will save more than you kill?

Suppose I use the example of James Kopp.

His argument goes like this:

Abortionists kill babies.
Killing the abortionist stops babies from being killed.
Since more babies will die if I let the abortionist live,
Killing the abortionist will save lives.

A better approach is to try to save both, because one life is no more valuable than another. We have no right to kill someone in the hopes that we will save others.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Vietnam and Korea must be taken account in a different context. You seem to forget that the Cold War was behind this, and the Cold War was ultimately a battle of ideologies. US interest in fighting those wars was to prevent the spread of its rival ideology, communism.

Ideology? Hmmm... how about the US verses anti-American Islamic states?

This war is much different. Do you honestly think the Bush administration is not taking advantage of gobbling up that oil while takin out daddy's sworn enemy in the meantime?? Pleeease.

So cynical. When your mom gives you some money, do you ask what profit is in it for her?

This war has nothing to do with oil! It doesn't even figure into the calculations in this war. Bush has always hated Saddam and that is the main reason for this conflict.

[Imran Siddiqui]

You think. That is not precisely an affirmative statement.

And you think that this war is for oil. That's not affirmative either

Ok, how about this: I KNOW the War for Oil people are naive. Better?

Why do you insist that oil is not an issue. Source? Is it so hard to accept that your country, like all others, is greedy?

Because it isn't! If Bush wanted to help his oil buddies, this war would make NO sense! If anything this war will hurt them by lessening profits.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
[
Ideology? Hmmm... how about the US verses anti-American Islamic states?

Then why are bombs not falling on Damascus, Tehran and dare I say, Pyongyang?

So cynical. When your mom gives you some money, do you ask what profit is in it for her?

My well-being. That's enough benefit.

This war has nothing to do with oil! It doesn't even figure into the calculations in this war. Bush has always hated Saddam and that is the main reason for this conflict.

Doesn't figure because the profits won't be seen this fiscal year. Yes, hatred towards Saddam is one of the reasons. A big reason. So is oil.

[Tiberius]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

AFAIK, Iraq is calculating its oil prices is Euros, and I don't really think that the Bush administration like this, especially that other OPEC countries might want to do this, too.

Why would he even care? I know I don't.

Because if America would buy oil in euros instead of dollars, it would lose billions of dollars, that's why.

Do you really believe that the administration would spend this enormous amount of money, without hoping in a profit?

YES! What was the profit in Vietnam? Korea? You may think it naive, but American Presidents have always had idealism in their bones.

The profit in Vietnam and Korea would have been to stop the communists. A totally different matter in a way, but it was too, in the interest of America. Only then the interest was called "stop the communists" and now it is called "cheap oil and backup oil in case something's happening in Saudi-Arabia".

So "The 'War for Oil' mantra is a mindless slogan? Then what are the american soldiers doing in the Gulf? Not now in Iraq, but generally speaking? Hmm? Everything that's happening in the Gulf has to do with oil.

[Master Zen]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Because it isn't! If Bush wanted to help his oil buddies, this war would make NO sense! If anything this war will hurt them by lessening profits.

And this so called war-generated economic crisis is nowhere to be seen. Most stock markets in the world have gone up today...

These people are not thinking short-term. They are thinking long term, and this war will benefit them tremendously.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Master Zen
Why do you insist that oil is not an issue. Source?

I 'd like some hard facts to prove the war for oil assertion rather than a collection of BAMs.

[Drake Tungsten]

This war sure has brought out the morons...

[Tiberius]

So, again: what are the americans doing in the Gulf (Kuweit, Saudi-Arabia, Iraq, etc), if not taking care that the oil supply of the US is assured?