Christians: Bible commands on substances?

[Static Universe]

Originally posted by obiwan18

Jesus rebuked them by saying that what makes a man unclean is what comes out of his mouth, not what goes in.

The point is: you can drink all you want, but if you puke it's a sin.

[Giant_Squid]

1 Timothy 5:23 - "Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses."

Proverbs 31:6,7 - "Give beer to those who are perishing, wine to those who are in anguish; let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more. "

Like every other issue in the world, the Bible can't make up its mind WHAT it believes.

[Ben Kenobi]

Berzerker:

Jews avoid kosher food?

Oi. You knew what I meant.

But Jesus' response to the accusation applies to everything that man ingests, including intoxicants. Since it is only what comes from the mouth/heart that defiles the body, and not what one ingests, then ingesting booze does not, by itself, defile anything.

Correct. Booze is not intrinsically evil. I like your illustration with drinking and falling asleep. However, you can't count on falling asleep all the time when you get drunk.

Christians were consistent about legislating their religion.

Nope. This is more for behavior between brothers and sisters in Christ. Unless Christians legislated belief, then these exhortations could not be enforced.

Of course, I suspect Paul was a very boring person...

The Romans and Pharisee's didn't think so.

So, would Paul condemn Jesus for giving a bunch of wine to an already drunk crowd of party-goers?

Yes, he would. The question becomes did Jesus get people drunk at Cana?

John 2:9-10

They did so, and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside and said, "Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now."


At first glance, this passage seems to say so. The partygoers have been drinking, as they have finished the wine provided. If Jesus fulfilled the usual example, he would have supplied cheap wine that made people drunk.

But Jesus chose not to follow the usual example. Your question above assumes that Jesus turned the water into wine. If you accept this, what does this mean? Jesus used this opportunity to help show his mother, and the partygoers his divinity. The transformation of the wine would be the first miracle performed by Jesus.

If one assumes Jesus is Lord, could he not make 'good' wine that people could not get drunk upon? Clearly the bridegroom felt the wine of Jesus was the best wine of the evening.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Berzerker
Edit: Boris, this author is a joke, I've read other commenataries from fundies who at least offer reasonable explanations for what Jesus did at Cana. This author doesn't even try to support the accusations about other drugs, he apparently considers alcohol intoxication to include any drug he doesn't like. I've read other fundies who at least try to support their claim that the Bible condemns drug use, albeit with about as much success as this person.

Did you think I was seriously recommending this page?

[monolith94]

When you think about it, yeah! If you accept that Jesus has that kind of power, that he can turn water into wine in the first place, then he must be able to make a really *****in wine!

[Ben Kenobi]

1 Timothy 5:23 - "Stop drinking only water, and use a little wine because of your stomach and your frequent illnesses."

Proverbs 31:6,7 - "Give beer to those who are perishing, wine to those who are in anguish; let them drink and forget their poverty and remember their misery no more. "

Giant Squid:

1 Timothy 5:23.

No contradiction. Note the qualifier Paul employs, 'little wine.'

Timothy had stomach problems, as Paul indicates in your quote. At that time water could not be purified to the same extent it is today. Therefore water-born parasites could cause the symptoms attributed to Timothy.


Proverbs 31:1-7

In context:

The sayings of King Lemuel-an oracle [1] his mother taught him:

"O my son, O son of my womb,
O son of my vows, [2]
do not spend your strength on women,
your vigor on those who ruin kings.

"It is not for kings, O Lemuel-
not for kings to drink wine,
not for rulers to crave beer,
lest they drink and forget what the law decrees,
and deprive all the oppressed of their rights.
Give beer to those who are perishing,
wine to those who are in anguish;
let them drink and forget their poverty
and remember their misery no more.

The instructions are addressed to King Lemuel, exhorting him to forsake wine, and to leave drinking to the masses. Not contradictory.

[Stuie]

Lot's of people like to use Genesis 29 and similiar Bible passages to suggest that God endorces the use of marijuana. Try this Yahoo search and pick any web page from the results:

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=%22every+herb+bearing+seed%22+marijuana

[Ben Kenobi]

Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food.

I assume you mean Gen 1:29

Who advocates eating cannabis?

Also is cannabis seed bearing?

[Felch]

YES

I hate getting seeds in my bud.

And lots of people eat cannabis. Ever had pot brownies?

[Ben Kenobi]

Felch:
Do people eat pot brownies for nourishment, or for getting stoned?

And yes, I do know about pot brownies.
And that's all I'll say about the matter.

[Felch]

If you mean just nourishment, seeds are used in bird food and oil from the seeds can be used for cooking.

Other than that, it is an edible plant. It won't kill you or anything, at least not in reasonable quantities.

[Japher]

Well, whoever wrote the book of Revelations was smoking something good. Of this I am sure.

[Felch]

He probably wasn't smoking anything. I'd say hallucinogenic mushrooms are more likely the cause.

[lord of the mark]

Originally posted by obiwan18


I'm no expert, but Berzerker left a few things out.

Regarding cleanness/uncleaness, Jesus referred to the Jewish practice of avoiding Kosher food,

Jesus was against the Jewish practice of avoiding Kosher food? So is my rabbi.

[Dauphin]

There is an interesting bit in the Genesis about how Noah was buggered by one of his sons after getting drunk. The moral, don't get drunk.