Christians: Bible commands on substances?

[Zylka]

I'm only really familiar with Matthew, Mark, Luke and John... Would the experts please inform me of the bible's full description of intoxication?

Referenced passages would help. Thanks!

[Boris Godunov]

Can't you use google?

http://jesusisthelight.net/ALCOHOL.htm

Remember, Satan loves it when you drink and get high.

[Zylka]

This is for debate... the most info can be drawn from such

[Berzerker]

Let's start with this biblical revisionism:

In this paper I will share different verses that make it crystal clear that the Lord is not pleased with those who choose to defile their bodies and minds by the use of alcohol and drugs.

According to Jesus, who was accused of defiling his body for breaking bread with heathens, it is not what you put in your mouth that defiles you, but what comes out of your mouth, this defiles you. He's talking about thoughts and words...Next, consider that Jesus, according to the story about the wedding at Cana, supplied an already intoxicated crowd, with another batch of wine. Now, if the fundies claim this was a symbolic tale designed to convey a message about reform, quite possibly a valid interpretation, then there goes one of Jesus' miracles, which leads us to question the validity of other miracles which may have also been symbolic tales.

1) There is a big difference between being a drunkard and drinking booze just as there is a big difference between a wino and having wine with dinner. If you read the context in which wine is condemned, it isn't moderation, but drunkenness that is being condemned. The author goes on to cite a number of verses that highlight the hazards of excess alcohol use, but when Noah got drunk after the Flood, who did God curse? Noah or Ham? Ham was sober, Noah wasn't. Hmm...

Check out this rationalisation of Jesus turning water to wine:

Do you really believe that what Jesus miraculously created in any way resembled the stuff that you can buy in a 40-ounce at the liquor store? What Jesus created for the wedding referred to in John 2:1-11 is a drink similar to grape juice. I'm sure that no one at the wedding had a hangover the next day after drinking what Jesus had created.

So, it was only grape juice? ROTFLMAO! The story refutes this, it says a man came to Jesus after being given the wine produced by Jesus, and the man commented that it was unusual for the host (? the "host" at a Jewish wedding was the bridegroom!!!) to hold on to the better batch of wine till last. The host would put out the best wine first when the party begins so that once people started getting drunk, they wouldn't notice the decline in quality as the inferior wine was later offered. According to the story, the man even said the host usually waits till the guests are "well-drunk" before bringing out the inferior wine. "Well-drunk", according to Strong's Concordance, means bombed, intoxicated, drunk...

Hmm...the author only provides verses dealing with wine, nothing about the demon weed he claims God hates for us to use.

Edit: Boris, this author is a joke, I've read other commenataries from fundies who at least offer reasonable explanations for what Jesus did at Cana. This author doesn't even try to support the accusations about other drugs, he apparently considers alcohol intoxication to include any drug he doesn't like. I've read other fundies who at least try to support their claim that the Bible condemns drug use, albeit with about as much success as this person.

[Spiffor]

Some Indians used to use peyote and other "natural" substances to get high so that they could speak to their spiritual guides. I can tell you right now that those "guides" weren't angels of God; they were Satan's devils.

Even Fez is more convincing !

[Berzerker]

Well of course, when I talk to God, it's the real deal. When you talk to God, you talk to Satan.

[Static Universe]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov

Remember, Satan loves it when you drink and get high.

Hail Satan

             

[Berzerker]

Yeah, Satan can't be all bad.

[monolith94]

I'm currently working on a mini-epic poem detailing a fictional encounter in which I go out on a date with the devil. She wears leather and has a smile to die for.

[Anodyne]

Oooooooooo She-Devil!!!

[monolith94]

Seriously, the ultimate bad girl is ultimately sexy.

[Kramerman]

There are specific demonic spirits associated with liquor and marijuana and cocaine and heroin, and opium, etc., and every time you use these substances, you could unknowingly be opening the doorway for these demonic spirits to come into your life.

few things annoy me more than we people believe their own speculations (especially crazy ones) as truth... hence i am agnostic/atheist...

I still dont drink or do drugs tho... doesnt seem worth the possible consequences. I can have just as good a time playing PtW anyway...

kman

[loinburger]

But multiplayer is ever so much more enjoyable when you're drinking! Particularly if your goal is to piss people off.

[Ben Kenobi]

Would the experts please inform me of the bible's full description of intoxication?

I'm no expert, but Berzerker left a few things out.

Regarding cleanness/uncleaness, Jesus referred to the Jewish practice of avoiding Kosher food, not to intoxication. The Pharisees were more concerned with adherance to dietary restrictions, than with proper moral conduct, so Jesus rebuked them by saying that what makes a man unclean is what comes out of his mouth, not what goes in.

Intoxication:


Romans 13:13

Let us behave decently, as in the daytime, not in orgies and drunkenness, not in sexual immorality and debauchery, not in dissension and jealousy.

1 Cor 6:9-10

Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders,
nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.

Galatians 5:19-21

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Ephesians 5:18

Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit.


So why is drunkeness sinful conduct? Paul expresses his concern that those who get drunk lose self-control, and may commit other sins because they cannot restrain themselves.

Not everyone has the same tolerance of alcohol, so a set standard will not work. Some may get drunk on what would hardly touch a heavy drinker.


1 Cor: 9-13

Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this knowledge eating in an idol's temple, won't he be emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols? So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall.


Applying this to drinking: some Christians are strong. They understand that light drinking, before the point of drunkeness is not sinful. Some Christians are weak in that they cannot drink without become attached to the wine, alcoholics, etc. The strong brother should always accede to the weak brother as Paul illustrates above.
It is better that you do not drink in front of those who would have problems. For if they see you drink a little bit of wine, they may go off, and find themselves unable to stop.

I hope this helps, Zylka.

[Berzerker]

Obiwan -

I'm no expert, but Berzerker left a few things out.

Regarding cleanness/uncleaness, Jesus referred to the Jewish practice of avoiding Kosher food, not to intoxication.

Jews avoid kosher food? My opening sentence mentioned that Jesus was accused of defiling the bodily temple of God - the human body - by breaking bread with heathens, i.e., violating dietary or food preparation laws. But Jesus' response to the accusation applies to everything that man ingests, including intoxicants. Since it is only what comes from the mouth/heart that defiles the body, and not what one ingests, then ingesting booze does not, by itself, defile anything.

So why is drunkeness sinful conduct? Paul expresses his concern that those who get drunk lose self-control, and may commit other sins because they cannot restrain themselves.

So, would Paul condemn Jesus for giving a bunch of wine to an already drunk crowd of party-goers? The problem with that argument is that drinking booze is not the sin, but getting drunk and making a fool of oneself (so to speak) that is the sin. There are plenty of people who do that without any alcohol.

Not everyone has the same tolerance of alcohol, so a set standard will not work. Some may get drunk on what would hardly touch a heavy drinker.

The set standard is the behavior one engages in when drunk. If I got drunk and tore off my clothes and streaked down the street, I may not be acting like a good Christian. If you got drunk and went to sleep, I doubt you'd be refused entry to Heaven.

1 Cor: 9-13

Be careful, however, that the exercise of your freedom does not become a stumbling block to the weak. For if anyone with a weak conscience sees you who have this knowledge eating in an idol's temple, won't he be emboldened to eat what has been sacrificed to idols? So this weak brother, for whom Christ died, is destroyed by your knowledge. When you sin against your brothers in this way and wound their weak conscience, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if what I eat causes my brother to fall into sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause him to fall.

Yikes, the implications of that would create an all-encompassing nanny state if Christians were consistent about legislating their religion.

Applying this to drinking: some Christians are strong. They understand that light drinking, before the point of drunkeness is not sinful. Some Christians are weak in that they cannot drink without become attached to the wine, alcoholics, etc. The strong brother should always accede to the weak brother as Paul illustrates above. It is better that you do not drink in front of those who would have problems. For if they see you drink a little bit of wine, they may go off, and find themselves unable to stop.

Then we should never eat in front of others lest they pig out and get obese. I understand the rationale there, but personal responsibility does matter and removing it makes life incredibly boring. Of course, I suspect Paul was a very boring person...