Massive World Protests Tomorrow

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
It was not nearly another Boston Tea Party .

Harpers Ferry?

[Imran Siddiqui]

That was a revolt by a crazy man. A guy that slaughtered hundreds in Kansas/Nebraska is not what an entire movement should be judged on. The majority of the movement was newspapers by certain individuals.

I don't think you can call that opposition to slavery, 'protest' as we are using it in this sense. If that were the case, the Republican 'revolution' of 1994 was a protest (I don't believe that either).

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
That was a revolt by a crazy man.

Don't believe Southern propaganda. Read what he said and wrote. The man was perfectly lucid. He was considered crazy because he was a white man willing to lay down his life so that Black men might be free.

Nor did he slaughter hundreds. The "massacre" that he led was of less than a dozen people. The only event that came close to killing hundreds in "Bloody Kansas" was the bushwackers' raid into Lawrence, KA, a town popul;ated by free staters.

[Ned]

Well then, Che, do you count the Pope among your leaders? He certainly is trying to get this thing resolved without the use of force.

It would really have been interesting to see this frail old man join the march in Rome.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Ned
Well then, Che, do you count the Pope among your leaders? He certainly is trying to get this thing resolved without the use of force.

He's not my leader, but I'm sure many anti-war Catholics look to him for leadership. Outside the US, where the Pope's opinion counts, it's probably a very important factor in the anti-war movement. American Catholics tend to be more independently minded, which I think is a good thing. I'd rather someone be opposed to the war because they think it's wrong rather than because they were told to be opposed. I don't think people should be told what to think, even if it benefits my side.

[Robert]

The facts are that public opinion in Europe is overwhelmingly against the war. There is no denying this fact. Nothwithstanding the opinions of their own citizens the leaders of all but two of these countries are pressing on regardless. Hence people are putting the government on notice by protesting - effectively saying - stop, or you've lost my vote. The idea is to compel the government to change its policy or in the case of Blair, its leader.

In Europe there's a lot of anti-war propaganda,
take The Netherlands, overhere 80% of the journalists vote left.

The leftish parties SP and GroenLinks (socialists and green-socialists) are spreading anti-war folders, propaganda and all that.

We hardly hear *anything* from the pro-war front.

Besides that take the usual anti-america feeling people have and the 'default' hate people have against war. (which is a good thing)

if you take that all in concideration, it's pure logic that people say "NO" to war at first sight.
That might change if they're informed right about the concequences of not going to war etc.
But that just doesn't happen. Well, it does happen, but not in the big-mouthing way the left parties push their stuff through our troats.

I have talked with much people who got not much of an idea about the situation in the middle east.
They were against a war. When I talked with them for a while, and I informed them about reasons why to go to war, and why not going to war might lead to more casualties etc. etc. all of them changed their minds to a more neutral point of view, like "Try peace as long as possible, but use war if all peacefull roads are blocked"

Pherhaps it's true that in the USA the situation is exactly the other way, and the pro-war propaganda machine is bigger. Overhere in Europe it's not.

I can't help it, but I concider my fellow europeans dumb and bad-informed. Not all of them, but much of them.

I have respect for well-informed rational people I disagree with.
Unfortunately I hardly meet them.

[axi]

To the person mentioning "permits to demonstrate" somewhere above, I have to point out that only in unfree states like the USA and Iraq does one have to have a permit to demonstrate. Demonstrating is a constitutional right where I come from and nobody needs a ****ing permit to do it.

As for that stupid disarmament argument, why the hell didn't the USA try to do what they're doing now in 1998 when Iraq booted the weapons inspectors? Why wait 4 years? And why didn't Bush do that early in 2001, if you see it as a specific Republican policy? But noo, first we get 11/9/2001, then we take Afghanistan, then, seeing how strong we are, go for the big bucks in Iraq and opt for more after that (axis of evil, Korea, etc)...

There was no economic crisis in 1998 either...

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by axi
Demonstrating is a constitutional right where I come from and nobody needs a ****ing permit to do it.

That must be fun when marches are staged down busy streets. I hope you keep the number of the nearest hospital handy.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by CyberShy
When I talked with them for a while, and I informed them about reasons why to go to war, and why not going to war might lead to more casualties etc.

Such a good Christian war monger. I'll be your patron would be so proud of you . . . if he existed. The motto of the "true Christian," don't let your beliefs get in the way of your blood-lust.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by axi
why the hell didn't the USA try to do what they're doing now in 1998 when Iraq booted the weapons inspectors?

Iraq didn't boot all the inspectors, just the Americans, who were spying on them above and beyond searching for WoMD. The UN pulled the rest of them out a month later, just before Clinton's "Wag the Dog," bombing campagin.

[Robert]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


Such a good Christian war monger. I'll be your patron would be so proud of you . . . if he existed. The motto of the "true Christian," don't let your beliefs get in the way of your blood-lust.

nice way of reasoning, if someone thinks war is the only left over option, he's a war monger.

oh well. I could wait for that. when people run out of arguments the name-calling starts

[Ben Kenobi]

Cybershy:

Why do you believe the war with Iraq is justified?

You also have to consider those lives that will be lost due to the bombing in Iraq, the so-called collateral damage. Is it worth going to war to topple Saddam, if it means thousands will die?

[Darius871]

Originally posted by axi

As for that stupid disarmament argument, why the hell didn't the USA try to do what they're doing now in 1998 when Iraq booted the weapons inspectors?

Because there was a different President, and a different foreign policy. Also, there wasn't a 9/11 to make us more aware of how real the threat of terrorism is. Had 3000 people died in a 1997 terrorist attack, and we had a right-wing president when the inspectors were kicked out in 1998, we may well have had a regime change then.

God, as if nothing can change in the world after 5 years.

[Agathon]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Agathon: I said working through the democratic process has a higher success rate then protesting not that protesting had never worked. Respond to what I actually said and not what you wish I said.

And a third time for Zeus the Liberator....

Protesting can be part of the democratic process.

Protests influence both the government and public opinion. You are trying to force an exclusive distinction where none exists.

[Ned]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara


He's not my leader, but I'm sure many anti-war Catholics look to him for leadership. Outside the US, where the Pope's opinion counts, it's probably a very important factor in the anti-war movement. American Catholics tend to be more independently minded, which I think is a good thing. I'd rather someone be opposed to the war because they think it's wrong rather than because they were told to be opposed. I don't think people should be told what to think, even if it benefits my side.

Che, I do not salute the pope and say, "Yes Sir!" when he speaks. But this pope is someone very special. He is a great man who holds a great office.

When he speaks, I listen.

I can only wish him well in getting Saddam to cooperate with the UN to avoid war.