France, Germany present alternative to war

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Sava
Yet it's wrong when people suggest the US is in it for oil?

I think Thrawn, unlike Imran or PrinceBimz, is realistic.

[Ted Striker]

In a fight between Cub Scouts Troop 487 from Rapid City Michigan and the UN, I'd pick the Cub Scouts to win every single time.

[Az]

no it's not wrong. It's true. It also does a good thing, on the way.

[Lancer]

Do you think France and Germany would have ever thought to produce any plan had the Americans not put the Iraqis up against the wall? No, of course not. Why? Because they are marginalized and powerless. Now they want to save the mass murdering Iraqi regime to save the oil deals they cut with Saddam.

You think I care whether such people 'like' Americans?

If you people riding your high horses should look down. You might find out you're riding an ass... French/German pro Saddam policy.

[Thrawn05]

QUOTE:
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Originally posted by Sava

Yet it's wrong when people suggest the US is in it for oil?


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If the US wanted the oil, they could of done it in the last gulf war. Do you see them controling the oil pumps in Kuwait and Qatar right now?

[Sava]

I do think its wrong to suggest the War(s) are about oil... on both sides. Oil is a factor, but not the reason.

Thrawn: Nah, but they kept the dictatorship in Kuwait in power that they buy the oil from and then the American corporations profit from it.

[Thrawn05]

QUOTE:
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Originally posted by Spiffor
I think Thrawn, unlike Imran or PrinceBimz, is realistic.
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I try very hard not to let Idiology take over me. Hence why I rarely get into these types of thread because over half the people arguing do have a ideology and are blinded by it. I'm not accussing anyone here of that, but wanted to point that.

[Thrawn05]

QUOTE:
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Originally posted by Sava
Thrawn: Nah, but they kept the dictatorship in Kuwait in power that they buy the oil from and then the American corporations profit from it.
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Kuwait is OPEC, every nation gets kuwaity oil.

[Thrawn05]

QUOTE:
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Originally posted by Lancer
Now they want to save the mass murdering Iraqi regime to save the oil deals they cut with Saddam.
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Doesn't that violate the UN sanctions on Iraq BTW?

[Spiffor]

Originally posted by Lancer
Do you think France and Germany would have ever thought to produce any plan had the Americans not put the Iraqis up against the wall?

Obviously not. Most probably, the sanctions would have been lifted too, and everything would have gone back to the situation before 1991, except that less weapons would have been sold to Iraq

Why? Because they are marginalized and powerless.

Powerless : probably. However, they are not marginalized : China and Russia wish for a peaceful solution as well. 3 of 5 permanent members of the security council want to avert the war, I hardly call this 'marginalized'.

Now they want to save the mass murdering Iraqi regime to save the oil deals they cut with Saddam.

Also they want to get some popularity from their population, and have the media and the opposition avoid talking about difficult domestic issues. It is bad to found a foreign policy on this, don't you think ?

You think I care whether such people 'like' Americans?

This kind of attitude will lead undoubtedly to America's downfall. Rather than a leader of the posse, the US will become a mere bully forcing others to their views. If your attitude keeps the power, you won't get any help when your domination will be threatened.

If you people riding your high horses should look down. You might find out you're riding an ass... French/German pro Saddam policy.

I'm still wondering if a pro-Saddam policy will be worse or better for the Iraqi people than the incoming slaughter. I don't know what of the two options will have the highest body count.

[Thrawn05]

QUOTE:
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Originally posted by Spiffor
I'm still wondering if a pro-Saddam policy will be worse or better for the Iraqi people than the incoming slaughter. I don't know what of the two options will have the highest body count.
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You can blame that on Saddam, since he's the one who puts day-care centers near military targets.

The US is going to destroy Saddam "image". The US is not going to bomb bridges, power plants, etc because the people need that for the rebuilding.

EDIT: Fixed some typos

[Lancer]

Here's another quote for you:

In a week or two the US is going in to Iraq to defeat a dictator. This is nothing new for the US, excepting that such dictators are usually in the heart of europe, and we're usually bailing out the ****ing French. Along side us as we go in will be our good and loyal friends.

These are all that are going in or getting in. The rest will be left out in the cold because why?

Because we won't forget those who betray our friendship. Remember in the future when you ask 'why?'. When you, once again come crying for help. This is why, that we don't forget.

[DanS]

This kind of attitude will lead undoubtedly to America's downfall. Rather than a leader of the posse, the US will become a mere bully forcing others to their views. If your attitude keeps the power, you won't get any help when your domination will be threatened.

Actually, Lancer's instinct is a good one. Our outlook on what is right and wrong, and what is in our interest and not, will guide our actions.

An international concensus is useful in most circumstances (such as the war on terror), but is not strictly necessary in any sense. That said, we will always communicate the rationale for why we are doing what we are doing, and consult with others.

[Sava]

Actually, Lancer's instinct is a good one

Ethno-centrist racism is good?? Good job at pointing that out for me DanS

[Lancer]

I'm not a racist you git. I just don't like the ****ing frogs. I'm 1/8 frog btw, though that's declining since I don't eat frogs legs, got it?

My frog is definately in remission.