France, Germany present alternative to war

[Lancer]

I've known alot of nice Germans and had very good times in Germany, particularly at the border...back when it was a border. Very friendly people. I'm better than half German btw. From Zurich.

I understand now why you occasionally invade the French...

Why you are in bed w/ them now...yuck...

[Willem]

Originally posted by Lancer
Russia and China eh?

*Adds them to the list of countries that don't get Iraqi contracts*

No skin off Russia's nose at any rate, they have plenty of their own oil. That threat only goes so far in today's world.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Oerdin
Apparently Powell is a little ticked off that the frogs and krauts didn't even bother to tell him they were going to put a proposal forward. Wasn't it the axis of weasel who was whining last year that the U.S. shouldn't do anything without at least informing htem first?

I guess what is good for the goose isn't good for the gander.

Well Rumsfeld hasn't exactly created a climate that's been conducive to discussion either.

[Dinner]

Originally posted by Spiffor
As Sava pointed out, and DanS or DetroitDave accepted, removing dictators is something new for the US.

Heck, we've been knocking off (and setting up) dictators in Latin America for the better part of two hundred years. It is a long and glorious American tradition

[BeBMan]

Originally posted by Lancer
I've known alot of nice Germans and had very good times in Germany, particularly at the border...back when it was a border. Very friendly people. I'm better than half German btw. From Zurich.

I understand now why you occasionally invade the French...

Why you are in bed w/ them now...yuck...

To be honest, this whole EU thingie is our evil plot to get Germans into Paris without firing a single bullet...

[Willem]

Originally posted by DanS


When did we fail to consult?

Right when Bush announced that it ws time for a regime change. Maybe a little diplomacy was in order then, instead of acting like a typical cowboy?

[Lancer]

Go in and win BeBro.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Lancer
No, the French people suck. You visit France and they treat you like dirt.

Of course that's a generalization, I'm sure there are nice French people too, and maybe you're one of them. However I wouldn't go digging through a pile of garbage looking for a good apple, hence, the French people suck.

Oh shut up. French-bashing is lame and passe now. I'll admit to taking some pot shots at the French, but I draw a line at real xenophobia. I was treated very well in France, with few exceptions. Certainly not any different than how the British treated me.

France is allowed to disagree with U.S. policy, even vehemently if it wants. The people dismissing that difference of opinion as mere automated nay-saying or some sort of cynical bid out of self interest make me mad. I've yet to see anyone explain rationally why the French should be expected to toe the line here.

As for the Germans, I am quite glad for their position. I like to see it as a fundamental shift in national character that they are so adamantly pacifist. It's a sign that maybe, 60 years from now, Americans won't be so warmongering.

[Lancer]

Frenchies still suck.

[Willem]

Originally posted by Spiffor
I'm fairly sure Korean nukes can reach Seoul or Tokyo. It may be enough to plunge the world into chaos IMHO.

Chaos yes, but his statement was mutually assured destruction. And the backlash of NK bombing either of those places because of a dispute it's having with the US would leave it completely isolated, leaving the US free to do what it wanted to. It would be assured suicide, something that politicians generally don't engage in.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Allah (or mayber Jove) has sent an omen to Germany, its pacifists will be slaughtered by predetary enemies.

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=573&ncid=757&e=1&u=/nm/20030210/od_nm/ravens_dc

[DanS]

Right when Bush announced that it ws time for a regime change. Maybe a little diplomacy was in order then, instead of acting like a typical cowboy?

Regime change was the stated policy of the Clinton Administration from 1998 forward, and written into law by Congress.

[The Viceroy]

Ive seen this dispute comming for some years now, the French and Germans have been pushing for a credible alternative to American power, they feel they have started to turn the tide, with the recent strength of the Euro, and the soon to be enlarged union, however, what they may have started to acheive Economically, they fall woefully behind with Military, and hence the overtures towards Russia.

As for NATO, I don't think the Germans and French are ready to throw the towel in yet, but they are certainly sending the signal to Washington & London, that there are alternatives.

Personally, I think France & Germany are risking a lot here, this kind of posturing, only increases the hostile feelings many here in the UK have towards the EU, at its heart, I believe if given the choice, the UK would prefer a union with the US/Canada/Australia than the EU, and im suprised that the conservatives haven't yet used this as an alternative vision .. who knows ??

I still want the UK to join the Euro, and be at the heart of Europe, but a europe that feels it need not posture against our allies, otherwise, I would rather the UK pulled out altogether.

[Lancer]

I have always advocated a US/UK reunion. It's a pleasure to see someone else bring it up as a possibility.

[The Viceroy]

Lancer,

It amazing that nobody gives it serious consideration, ive heard a few Tory back benchers bring it up once or twice, but get laughed at, without any serious debate. I have also heard US politicians say it couldn't happen, without any serious debate.

One of the reasons many people here feel the EU is inevitable, is because there is no serious alternative .. nobody else has organised (or even attempted to).

I do wonder if it was seriously on the table, how many people would go for it .. Im betting more than would for Europe.