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  • France, Germany present alternative to war



    Disarm, occupy Iraq: France, Germany
    UN peacekeepers, intence scrutiny sought for Iraq instead of war



    BERLIN (AP) - Germany and France are working on a broad disarmament plan for Iraq designed to avoid war, including the deployment of UN soldiers throughout the country, reconnaissance flights and a tripling of the number of weapons inspectors, a German magazine reported today.
    The plan could be presented to the UN Security Council as a resolution, the weekly Der Spiegel said, although it was unclear how the two countries or the United Nations would win Iraqi President Saddam Hussein's approval for carrying it out.

    The plan would have international peacekeepers "in effect take control of the country for years," declare all of Iraq a no-fly zone and lead to agreements with Iraq's neighbours to crack down on smuggled exports of Iraqi oil as part of strengthened economic sanctions, Der Spiegel said.

    The German and French governments - both of which oppose U.S. pressure for an early war on Iraq - have been working on the idea since the start of the year, the report said, adding that Chancellor Gerhard Schroeder is convinced that Germany needs to move beyond his strict anti-war stand that has angered the United States and present alternative ways to disarm Iraq.

    German Defence Minister Peter Struck and his French counterpart Michele Alliot-Marie, both attending a security policy conference in Munich, confirmed that their countries were working on a joint initiative.

    They gave no details, but Struck said he would discuss the issue on the sidelines of the conference with U.S. Defence Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. Schroeder will also address the topic during a speech to parliament Thursday, Struck said.

    A German government spokesman confirmed that Germany and France are "jointly considering specific peaceful alternatives to a military solution" in Iraq. The spokesman, speaking on customary condition of anonymity, refused to comment on details.

    As part of intensified sanctions against Iraq, western countries would tighten export-control laws, Der Spiegel said. France would provide Mirage jets for reconnaissance flights to aid inspectors in their search for weapons.

    Some of the ideas were presented to the Security Council this week by French Foreign Minister Dominique de Villepin. He suggested tripling the number of inspectors and aiding their job with Mirage jets.

    Der Spiegel said Germany and France are sounding out other critics of the U.S. approach about their plan, including Russia, China and Greece.
    I'm against this war for a multitude of non-pacificist reasons, but this has got to be one of the most rediculous alternatives I could imagine. How, precisely is this any different from a war, unless someone is stupid enough to think that Saddam would volunteer to have his entire country occupied?
    "The French caused the war [Persian Gulf war, 1991]" - Ned
    "you people who bash Bush have no appreciation for one of the great presidents in our history." - Ned
    "I wish I had gay sex in the boy scouts" - Dissident

  • #2
    I do not believe that Iraq would consent to UN occupation. The only way to go about this plan would be to invade Iraq.
    Christianity: The belief that a cosmic Jewish Zombie who was his own father can make you live forever if you symbolically eat his flesh and telepathically tell him you accept him as your master, so he can remove an evil force from your soul that is present in humanity because a rib-woman was convinced by a talking snake to eat from a magical tree...

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    • #3


      I love it!

      "Please mister dictator, sir....could we umm....move all our guys in under the umbrella of the UN, whom you have already ignored for a decade, and let them run your country?"

      -=Vel=-
      so much for the enlightened alternative
      The list of published books grows. If you're curious to see what sort of stories I weave out, head to Amazon.com and do an author search for "Christopher Hartpence." Help support Candle'Bre, a game created by gamers FOR gamers. All proceeds from my published works go directly to the project.

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      • #4
        So France and Germany support an invasion, just not by America?
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        • #5

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          • #6
            If Iraq thinks that the choice is between being occupied with a show of dignity and being bombed into submission, and then occupied, then they may choose the former.

            Can't see it happening, however, not least because the US will probably try to torpedo the plan.

            Are they going to change the rules on PK weapons as well? If the UN wants to occupy Iraq, then it'll need to have at least a handful of heavy weapons.

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            • #7
              Great, I like this idea. It's essentially what America wants, without America doing the dirty work.
              John Brown did nothing wrong.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by chegitz guevara
                I do not believe that Iraq would consent to UN occupation. The only way to go about this plan would be to invade Iraq.
                Splendid idea... when do we start?

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                • #9
                  It would be cheaper then going to war so I'm for it, however, with that said Saddam won't give the plan a snow balls chance in hell and he'll just keep doing what he's been doing for 12 years.

                  Even if this plan were to implimented it would end in failure but it would dramatically decrease Saddam's control over the country so it may actually make a coupe more likely. That's a good thing.
                  Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                  • #10


                    FRANCE AND GERMANY ARE AFTER IRAQI OIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



                    Oh wait THE FRENCH ALREADY HAVE LARGE OIL COMPANIES *IN* IRAQ.
                    Last edited by Ted Striker; February 8, 2003, 20:16.
                    We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

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                    • #11
                      I think the jist of this proposal is that Hussein gets to remain in power in Iraq, as opposed to the U.S. unceremoniously removing him/forcing into exile/killing him/whatever. If given a choice between being ousted and/or killed, or keeping albeit diminished power, they are hoping he will choose the latter.

                      However, the plan is so humiliating to Iraq and presents a similar enough outcome that I am certain a megalomaniac like Hussein will opt for a bloody war (which he may really believe he can win) in which there is some maintenance of dignity. At the very least, he would get to go out in a bang.
                      Tutto nel mondo è burla

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Ted Striker


                        FRANCE AND GERMANY ARE AFTER IRAQI OIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

                        I have to admite Ted. The claim that France & Germany are after Iraqi oil has as much volidity as the claims the U.S. & U.K. are after Iraqi oil. There both complete nonsense.

                        Great analogy man.
                        Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.

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                        • #13
                          Thanks.
                          We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution. - Abraham Lincoln

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                          • #14
                            So I guess after Saddam happily accepts this proposal, France and Germany will promptly arrest him for war crimes?
                            "Let us kill the English! Their concept of individual rights could undermine the power of our beloved tyrants!"

                            ~Lisa as Jeanne d'Arc

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                            • #15
                              "I'm moving to the Left" - Lancer

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