Are all races equal?

[ottok]

I says that usa want war,and why?

Because Iraq helps palestines!I says that usa want war,and why?

Because Iraq helps palestines!I says that usa want war,and why?

Because Iraq helps palestines!

[Az]

rrrrrrrrright.

[Ben Kenobi]

IMO being short only becomes a disability when you are really short, like a dwarf.

Cali, like 5'6'' for a guy?

It seems like a waste of resources to expend all this effort to accommodate a disability when we could just eliminate deafness altogether.

Couple points. How expensive are earplugs? The measures needed for deaf people need not be expensive.

Secondly, can we eliminate further mutations that produce deafness?

Finally, how expensive will genetic engineering be compared with the alternatives?

Got anymore jobs?

[Ribannah]

Originally posted by ottok
I says that usa want war,and why?

Because Iraq helps palestines!I says that usa want war,and why?

Because Iraq helps palestines!I says that usa want war,and why?

Because Iraq helps palestines!

Actually the only ones to ever get help from this Iraqi regime were the USA.
But what has this to do with the topic?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by obiwan18


Cali, like 5'6'' for a guy?

Nahh...more like under 5 foot.

Couple points. How expensive are earplugs? The measures needed for deaf people need not be expensive.

I believe that in the long run it will always be more expensive to accomodate disabilities than to eliminate them.

Secondly, can we eliminate further mutations that produce deafness?

Not entirely, as mutations are constantly occuring, but we can at least stop existing mutations from being passed down to the next generation.

Finally, how expensive will genetic engineering be compared with the alternatives?

Expensive in the short term, but much cheaper in the long term IMO.

Got anymore jobs?

There are a lot of others I could come up with, some that could be more easily accomodated than others, but the point is that I think it's cheaper in the long run to just get rid of as many negative mutations as we can. Not only that, but I also think a person's chances of having a full life with a wide range of experiences would definitely be hindered by disabilities.

[OliverFA]

No. They have different skin colours.

Besides that yes, they are all equal

[Ben Kenobi]

a person's chances of having a full life with a wide range of experiences would definitely be hindered by disabilities.

Who decides what counts as a 'full' life? People who are deaf can certainly have a full live; they can marry, have kids, raise a family, hold a decent job. What more must they need to do to 'fill' their life?

Not entirely, as mutations are constantly occuring, but we can at least stop existing mutations from being passed down to the next generation.

So we will never eliminate disabilities, even with genetic engineering?

Nahh...more like under 5 foot.

How much harder is it for someone who is 5'0'' than one who is 5'1''?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by obiwan18


Who decides what counts as a 'full' life? People who are deaf can certainly have a full live; they can marry, have kids, raise a family, hold a decent job. What more must they need to do to 'fill' their life?

It's not that they can't have a full life, it's that having this disability is going to limit the range of experiences they can have. If you really think being deaf doen't limit a person, then why don't you give it a try?

So we will never eliminate disabilities, even with genetic engineering?

I won't say never, but I think it would take a very long time.

How much harder is it for someone who is 5'0'' than one who is 5'1''?

It's not that fine a line, but you can definitely say that life for someone who is 4'10" will be more difficult than someone who is 5'3". Why do you think dwarfs go through limb-lengthening procedures?

[Ben Kenobi]

If you really think being deaf doen't limit a person, then why don't you give it a try?

You don't want to go this way. Trust me.

You will lose harshly.

I won't say never, but I think it would take a very long time.

That's looking to be very expensive.

Why do you think dwarfs go through limb-lengthening procedures?

These dwarfs feel they would be better off with the procedure. I mentioned that in my earlier posts.

Now, if the dwarfs modify themselves, why shouldn't people who are 5'5'' who are a full foot shorter than you also try to lengthen their limbs?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by obiwan18


You don't want to go this way. Trust me.

You will lose harshly.

Yeah, sure. I thought we were having an intelligent discussion till you said this. It's not about winning or losing to me.

That's looking to be very expensive.

Less expensive than allowing every negative mutation to be passed on to subsequent generations. Do you want a world of invalids?

These dwarfs feel they would be better off with the procedure. I mentioned that in my earlier posts.

Now, if the dwarfs modify themselves, why shouldn't people who are 5'5'' who are a full foot shorter than you also try to lengthen their limbs?

There's no reason why they shouldn't. It's up to the individual.

[Ben Kenobi]

It's a very weak argument, that's all.

What if I happened to be deaf?

Less expensive than allowing every negative mutation to be passed on to subsequent generations. Do you want a world of invalids?

Negative mutations... Isn't that how evolution is supposed to work? No mutation is negative without the underlying environmental factors. You change the environment, you change the efficiency of a mutation.

Sickle-cell is an example used earlier in this thread, of how a detrimental effect can be positive given a suitable environment.

There's no reason why they shouldn't. It's up to the individual.

Should we pay for this service? Is it ameliorating a disability?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by obiwan18
It's a very weak argument, that's all.

If you think being deaf doesn't come with any limitations...pfff...that's just irrational. From where I'm standing, you're the one with the weak argument my friend.

What if I happened to be deaf?

Perhaps if you were I could understand your position a bit more. After all, you wouldn't have experienced what it's like to hear things, so you wouldn't know what you're missing. Are you?

Negative mutations... Isn't that how evolution is supposed to work? No mutation is negative without the underlying environmental factors. You change the environment, you change the efficiency of a mutation.

Sickle-cell is an example used earlier in this thread, of how a detrimental effect can be positive given a suitable environment.

Positive in one way, negative overall. Also, a natural immunity to malaria would be far more desirable than having SC.

Should we pay for this service? Is it ameliorating a disability?

Now you're getting into the politics of nationalized health, I won't touch that one I'm afraid. Of course, I don't have a problem accommodating those with existing disabilities, I just think we should also be looking at prevention.

[Ben Kenobi]

If you think being deaf doesn't come with any limitations...pfff...that's just irrational. From where I'm standing, you're the one with the weak argument my friend.

No limitations?
I never said that. Sure, deaf people can't do some things as well as hearing persons, but they can do lots more than you think they can.

I still question your idea of a full life. Could a deaf person raise a family, hold a decent job? I think this is a pretty full life. What more do they need?

Secondly, throughout this thread I have been arguing that a person's value is based on who they are, not on what they can do. This is the only way to ensure an equality of value among human persons. Any other standard allows for notions of 'fullness' or 'completeness' to make some peoples' lives worth less.

After all, you wouldn't have experienced what it's like to hear things, so you wouldn't know what you're missing.

Still ad hominem Caligastia. You are not deaf, so how can you know whether a deaf person can enjoy life? Shouldn't we err on the side of caution rather than condemnation?

Are you?

Deaf? No. Not in the way you are thinking.

[Caligastia]

Repeat after me obiwan18 - "Caligastia does not think deaf people are useless or incapable of leading full and productive lives, he simply recognises that being deaf is a disability."