What is Southern Culture?

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Yeah, the traditionalists have standards, and seemingly those standards are to keep women down. Just about everyone that has come down here from the North finds it striking the amount of BS women have to put up with down here.

When you have firms that only have like 2 women partners and both are in Family Law (compared to about 200 men partners), it's not really a business environment that women are going to feel very comfortable in. Some firms have serious problems with underrepresentment of women.

Your second paragraph evades the issue and brings up another subject entirely, one that is beyond the scope of this thread.

Sorry, Imran, but women up north have to adhere to standards too - or do you think that a 6-figure power attorney in Manhatten goes to work in tie-dies and cut-offs? Do you think that no Northern firms have the same dress standards as all these "evil, oppressive" Southern firms?

'Tis to laugh.

[Drake Tungsten]

Skirts themselves are simply designed to show skin.

That's why the Amish wear them, I'm sure...

[SlowwHand]

Speaking of blackeyed peas, Ramo; do you know why they're eaten for good luck in the South on New Year's? Seriously.
Different things are eaten in different places of the country/world.
You may know, others might not, so I'll tell.

When the Northern troops ravaged the South, burning houses and crops, they left the pea patch alone, as they thought of blackeyed peas as merely livestock feed.
Little did they know that we just LOVE blackeyed peas.

[Imran Siddiqui]

no Northern firms have the same dress standards as all these "evil, oppressive" Southern firms?

No Northern firms require women to wear skirts when they can wear pantsuits (and actually end up looking more formal by doing so). Any firm up North that required skirts and prohibited pantsuits would be protested to kingdom come and would have to comply.

To dissade pantsuits because there is no showing of leg is a very nice subtle sexist practice which I'm glad the North (and West) got rid of years ago.

[Ramo]

Silly yankees

[Imran Siddiqui]

That's why the Amish wear them, I'm sure...

The Amish REALLY respect women's rights .

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

Preferring that women wear skirts instead of pant suits is "keeping them down"?

Not hiring women because they wear pantsuits to interviews instead of skirts is 'keeping them down'. How would you like it if you were told that a woman interviewer wouldn't not hire you unless you wore a tight, short sleeved dress shirt, would you really feel comfortable?

How is a pantsuit any less dressy than a suit? It isn't. But it keeps them from seeing the womens' legs and reminds them they aren't the only ones wearing the pants in the company.

God, the eyerolling is giving me a headache. This post is so silly it begs disbelief.

"How is a pantsuit any less dressy than a suit? It isn't."

No, it is. You don't wear pant-suits to funerals (God, I hope not). Why? Because a dress is dressier than a pantsuit. Why? Because that's just the way it is. Just because you do not understand the dictates of fashion, especially womens fashion, does not make it wrong.

Btw, I don't make the rules. I just follow them - especially these, as the issue is so UNIMPORTANT.

"How would you like it if you were told that a woman interviewer wouldn't not hire you unless you wore a tight, short sleeved dress shirt, would you really feel comfortable?"

If I wanted the job, I'd wear the shirt. That's how the game is played.

Hey! You know what? To go to job interviews (at least in my salary range) I have to wear a suit. Oh, poor poor, whiny me!!! Boo-hoo! I gotta wear a tie. NOOOOO!!!!! WAAAAHHHHH!!!!!



Imran, when you go out and interview, you will be told that you have to wear a suit. How, in all the name that is good and holy, is that any different than telling a woman that she needs to wear a dress for an interview?

Hint: it isn't.

[Drake Tungsten]

The Amish REALLY respect women's rights

Way to miss the point entirely.

You said that skirts were designed to show skin. The Amish are about the most conservative people on Earth and abhor the showing of skin, yet they still wear skirts. I think that demonstrates the absurdity of your argument. Skirts are more traditional and formal than pantsuits, which is why they are preferred. It has very little to do with showing skin.

[JohnT]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

no Northern firms have the same dress standards as all these "evil, oppressive" Southern firms?

No Northern firms require women to wear skirts when they can wear pantsuits (and actually end up looking more formal by doing so). Any firm up North that required skirts and prohibited pantsuits would be protested to kingdom come and would have to comply.

To dissade pantsuits because there is no showing of leg is a very nice subtle sexist practice which I'm glad the North (and West) got rid of years ago.

Well, shit Imran, I'm still trying to figure out when wearing dresses was considered to be the non-demure thing to do.

[Imran Siddiqui]

You don't wear pant-suits to funerals (God, I hope not). Why? Because a dress is dressier than a pantsuit. Why? Because that's just the way it is.

Bull****! Pantsuits are fairly common at funerals.

Imran, when you go out and interview, you will be told that you have to wear a suit. How, in all the name that is good and holy, is that any different than telling a woman that she needs to wear a dress for an interview?

Because there isn't anything else comparable for men. Women have two choice for formal wear: pantsuits and skirts. To forbid one (which is the more empowering... what do you think the phrase 'the pants in the relationship' mean?) is particularly interesting.

Btw, I don't make the rules. I just follow them - especially these, as the issue is so UNIMPORTANT.

Of course... and underlying sexual prejudice is very unimportant. Why do you think all men have to wear suits? It serves to undistinguish them. The underlying reason is that it says that you are part of the company and you are no different from anyone else (hence interchangable).

Hell, look at the history of clothing in the past 100 years. Women that wore jeans more than few decades back (ie, pants) were either working in factories or just 'not being ladylike'. What does that mean other than women weren't expected to wear the 'pants in the society'.

[JohnT]

"Of course... and underlying sexual prejudice is very unimportant. "

Imran, you making an issue where one doesn't exist. Typical of the young, but I expected better of you.

Personally, I wish that some of the more experienced and professional among us (GP, MtG) would weigh in - I would be interested in hearing their opinions as to the proper attire for interviews and big-league law firms. MtG's SO would be especially helpful here...

Btw, you're right. My stepmother wore a pantsuit to my grandfathers funeral, but she is a c*nt and I try to block all memory of that woman out of my mind. Regardless, my analogy was flawed in the fact that we really are talking two totally different social situations here.

[Drake Tungsten]

Imran, you making an issue where one doesn't exist. Typical of the young, but I expected better of you.

Typical of lawyers, actually. Cut him some slack; he's just doing what he's been taught to...

[Imran Siddiqui]

Imran, you making an issue where one doesn't exist.

Well evidently many of the women believed it was an issue (to the point of being offended). Maybe that doesn't say anything, but if they say it was an issue, then maybe it is one.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui

no Northern firms have the same dress standards as all these "evil, oppressive" Southern firms?

No Northern firms require women to wear skirts when they can wear pantsuits (and actually end up looking more formal by doing so). Any firm up North that required skirts and prohibited pantsuits would be protested to kingdom come and would have to comply.

I work at a Northern firm. Not a law firm, no, but still...may I quote our policy manual dress code?

"Dress code is business attire (neat and professional). Women must wear pantyhose when attending a client meeting or special event, and if client will be meeting in our offices."

[Imran Siddiqui]

"Dress code is business attire (neat and professional). Women must wear pantyhose when attending a client meeting or special event, and if client will be meeting in our offices."

Where is the skirt requirement? Women MAY wear pantyhose much more commonly with skirts (though plenty of women do wear it with pantsuits as well... you can't simply wear white socks with pantsuits you know), but it does not say that skirts must be worn.

Also in cases were there is no client or special event, 'neat and professional' is all that is required.

PS: Stop messing these things up with facts .