gays in the military?

[Ben Kenobi]

You want a neanderthal Boris?

Christians agree with Azazel- homosexuality is hard on your health, and hard to quit, just like smoking.

"smoking creates a multitude of ills inherent to the act that makes it negative both for the participant and the innocent bystander. Homosexuality carries no inherent problem of that kind. Then there's the whole point that smoking isn't comparably a part of who anyone is. Anyone can choose to smoke or not."

The big difference is the innocent bystander. Second hand smoke has tremendous consequences for people who do not even smoke, and so it is restricted to certain indoor areas or left outside.

"we all know smoking is bad, but do we hate smokers? "

precisely. Love the sinner, hate the sin.

Anyway, I agree that they should be able to fight in the military, if they so desire. One's sexual orientation has no bearing on how well they fight. However, some soldiers will be uncomfortable working with them. For this reason, I think they should be careful.

Azazel- "but as long as it doesn't offend anyone, I'll tolerate"

What if the other soldiers are offended by serving with an openly gay man? Does this mean no gay people will serve? Must you also tolerate intolerance?

[Az]

I simply would like my kids to have kids of their own, I know it doesn't contradict, but I am a strong believer in the basics of life, and as such, I believe that having an offsping, an next generation is one of my very few reasons to live, the chances of a gay man having a biological child are much lower of the straight. If I had an option of sorts to choose between two offspring, totally equal in all other aspects, I'd choose the heterosexual, however I'd rather have my son/daughter to be a self-respecting, strong-willed, gay scientist/engineer,etc. than a straight loser of some kind.
I was talking on the educational issue. There is nothing inherently wrong with you, of course, Boris.

[Boris Godunov]

Orange, what shallow, horrible people. I can't imagine they were very good parents in the first place, if that's what they do to a daughter whom they supposedly love.

It's sickening how many stories I hear like that (or worse). It's amazing how many parents view their children like property that is there for them to control and to somehow reflect well on them rather than as independent human beings.

[orange]

i agree completely She hasn't seen them in years...

how did your parents react?

[Datajack Franit]

parents... pfui

[Az]

Christians agree with Azazel- homosexuality is hard on your health, and hard to quit, just like smoking

I am so embarassed. This is one of the low points of my life. I think that I am going to crawl under a rock now.

other soldiers: They're getting paid to do a job, serve in the army. What's their bussiness, what's the sexual preference of their mates?

The parents are *******s, btw.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by obiwan18
You want a neanderthal Boris?

Christians agree with Azazel- homosexuality is hard on your health, and hard to quit, just like smoking.

It's not inherently harmful, like smoking. There's also no reason to quit.

precisely. Love the sinner, hate the sin.

Cop out!

What if the other soldiers are offended by serving with an openly gay man? Does this mean no gay people will serve? Must you also tolerate intolerance?

A valid point. Az, If a large number of soldiers indicated they were uncomfortable with or downright disliked the idea of serving alongside, say, Jews, would that make it okay to not allow Jews to serve?

Also, more and more gays are having kids and starting families, so having a gay child doesn't preclude grandchildren, whether they adopt or go the surrogate route.

Orange, pretty well at first. I told them on my 22nd birthday, when they were up in Baltimore visiting me. After dinner at an Afghan restaurant (which was wonderful, btw), we went back to my apartment and I told them there. There was a good deal of silence, though my dad is always a quiet person. My mom had that look of "I'd known it, but was in denial, but now I know for sure..." and gave me the typical "but I wanted grandkids" line ( ).

By relationship with my dad didn't change a bit, but mom had some trouble at first. She tended to avoid the subject if it ever came up, and would get noticeably uncomfortable whenever I mentioned something relating to it. She's better about it now, but still holds out a vain hope she only says to my sister-in-law (and which she's stupid to think I don't hear about) that I will one day change my mind and get married and churn out those grandbabies she wants. Why she wants them, I don't know, since she isn't a particularly stellar grandmother to my nephew as of yet.

Anyhoo, there it is. Ah, therapy through typing...

[Ned]

Just a piece history, the Army was directed to desegregate shortly after WWII. However, they dragged their feet until the Korean War.

I suspect the same thing will happen with gays. They will join the ranks during a war and do quite well. From that time on, discrimination against gays will decline and vanish in America.

Perhaps it will be the upcoming war with Iraq.

[orange]

Comparatively, you got off easy Boris I'm glad for that...well, that you didn't have a hard time breaking the news anyway, not that others have it tougher...

[Az]

you see, I want grandkids as well. that's the only reason why I want my son/daughter to be straight. If he used a surrogate mother, and a egg from some woman, or she used a sperm from someone, than it wouldn't bother me at all, if they're raised in a loving enviroment.

heck, we all had our incidents with "gayety" in our lives. 'nuff said, and I wouldn't elaborate more. Now, I am rather certain that I am not gay, though.

[orange]

you experimented, Az? I never did...

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by orange
Comparatively, you got off easy Boris I'm glad for that...well, that you didn't have a hard time breaking the news anyway, not that others have it tougher...

Comparatively easy, yes. But to this day, it is the hardest thing I've ever done in my life. It's an incredibly difficult thing to do.

[orange]

i can't possibly imagine...hopefully it becomes a non-issue someday...

[Pekka]

Originally posted by Jarouik


I agree as well... though I chose civil service instead of the army, my boyfriend was in the army and was out to all the people serving with him. Since he doesn't resemble the negative gay stereotype, he had no trouble there and he actually had fun on the expense of homophobic straight guys, such as jokingly harassing some of them As far as I have understood, he was an excellent soldier, so at least the Finnish army should have absolutely no problem with openly gay people.

A living example then! I can't see any problems happening either. Only if a person fits the typical gay stereotype (you know), some guys might tease him. But it's the responsibility of the army to make sure nothing like this happens. Punish the people who act like children and tease. Now, I'm sure one of the staff officers was gay, no doubt about it . But so what, it's not like he's going to make love to you by force.

[Solly]

"gays in the military?"

Bad idea. We need the toughest soldiers out there we can...