Venezuelan opposition march

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by El Leon
The other -gasp- (not that again), is the presence of a U.S. union liaison around the Venezuelan anti-chavez unions.

US unions no longer do the bidding of the CIA. After the Democratic Socialists of America rose to power in the AFL-CIO, they quickly closed their office that was basically nothing more than a CIA front for funneling money to pro-US unions abroad.

GePap, while I'm not in favor of the current strike in Venezuela, leaning more towards Chavez myself, the right of the people to alter or abolish their government is one of the most basic rights.

I don't think Constitutionality is necessarily a valid reason for being against a popular revolt. While the constitution in Venzuela is different from most, in that it was voted on and apprived by the Venezuelan people, many are imposed on people from above (like the US Constitution or the Chilean Constitution--though I imagine that if the US Constitution were put up to a vote, it would win overwhelmingly).

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
I find it disturbing that Fez reports that the coup-plotters and members were released by the courts, if is true. They are criminals and traitors (sine they didn't win), and ought to be in jail awaiting trial. Apparently the courts are against Chavez as well.

I remember seeing the coup plotters and members were released, and Carmona, who should of stayed in power, fled the country. No, they are freedom fighters. They aren't criminals.

And why do you people like to mock me just because of my nick name here? Am I not allowed to express my opinion?

[monkspider]

I don't think it's your nickname that people are mocking Fez. I would say you are about the only one here that watches the 70's show anyway, so the nickname is irrelevent.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by monkspider
I don't think it's your nickname that people are mocking Fez. I would say you are about the only one here that watches the 70's show anyway, so the nickname is irrelevent.

I think I watch that show too much....

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by chegitz guevara
DinoDoc, while I haven't seen any evidence that the CIA is in someway behind the strike, it's not outside the realm of possibility

It was merely a small joke about the accussations that the US was the driving force behind the first coup attempt. I am actually heartened that you agree with me that it is a vanishingly small possibility outside of the Cold War.

[Adam Smith]

What do people make of the fact that the largest union, at the least, is anti Chavez? (Reported in Washington Post and BBC)

Didn't Chavez make some modifications to the judicial system (eg, expanding size of courts, packing iwth supporters) prior to changing the constitution?

Gepap:
If you dislike the Chicago Boys' economic policies since Allende, can you name any other South American country which would not trade its economic position for Chile's export driven growth?

All that said, I think it best for the opposition to wait eight months. I think their fear is that by waiting Chavez may impose a dictatorial solution, and their chance fo rlegal change would be lost.

[El León]

US unions no longer do the bidding of the CIA. After the Democratic Socialists of America rose to power in the AFL-CIO, they quickly closed their office that was basically nothing more than a CIA front for funneling money to pro-US unions abroad.

You are assuming that "US unions" is a cohesive entity. One thing is the AFL-CIO. Another one are the internationals. A third one is the international arm of the AFL-CIO, which is not AIFLD anymore, but...
There was one closed forum with leaders of the CTV right before the coup attempt... I'm not claiming anything, but i hope you understand my suspicions.

What do people make of the fact that the largest union, at the least, is anti Chavez?

A "union" may mean any number of things in Latin America. The union in question, the CTV, has had not a few corruption problems. For example, the membership voted 2 to 1 for democratic election of leaders... The leaders then overturned the vote and got themselves back in power....

[Agathon]

It's a pity you weren't killed by the Ecuadorian junta Fez as you strike me as the sort of parasite who wrecks every civilised society. I'd like to see you explain your admiration of Pinochet to the relatives of those he slaughtered but I guess you would be too gutless just like the typical conservative coward.

It also seems that you have swallowed the right wing myth that states that without completely free markets we'll all end up Stalinists.

Give me a break - mixed economies work. I know - I've lived in several. In fact they work better than almost any other form of organisation. Sometimes the market mechanism is most efficient, in other cases (health care for example) it is a disaster. That's just the way it is - which is why Canada spends far less per capita on health care than the US whilst getting much better services.

In any case - if I had a choice between being poor under Pinochet and poor in Cuba - I'd choose Fidel every time.

Why don't you come up with some arguments instead of bald assertions? Have you ever been to a proper school or are you just one of the morons who reads Ayn Rand's stupid and juvenile books.

Go one - give us some arguments. It will be a pleasure and a duty to expose you as the idiot you are.

[JCG]

Well, apparently some FARC people have met with pro-Chavez militants a couple of times in the past/present...Now I suppose that makes for an international leftist-conspiracy no?

Funny how not few people tend to blindly believe in right-wing conspiracies, but utterly dismiss left-wing ones....Myself, I believe both could be possibilities, but I presume nothing more than that, in this particular case.

And from what I've heard other unions have also been reasonably corrupt in the Venezuelan past, whether they are pro or anti-Chavez right now. That comes with the field, I'd guess.

[Kontiki]

Originally posted by Agathon

Go one - give us some arguments. It will be a pleasure and a duty to expose you as the idiot you are.

Far too late for that.

[Giancarlo]

Edit: I am sorry. My comments were out of line. I am now pulling out of this argument. Continue it without me.

[El León]

Oh oh, death threats in the forum.

Don't take Fez so seriously now, he is only playing.

[Sprayber]

Originally posted by Agathon
It's a pity you weren't killed by the Ecuadorian junta Fez as you strike me as the sort of parasite who wrecks every civilised society

Comments like this makes me wonder how you consider yourself any better.

[El León]

Originally posted by JCG
Well, apparently some FARC people have met with pro-Chavez militants a couple of times in the past/present...Now I suppose that makes for an international leftist-conspiracy no?

Well, I frankly don't see how a meeting of the FARC with pro-chavez militants (you find these FARC guys in the weirdest places after their shift in international policy in 1999) compares to a long-term relationship between the AFL and CTV, in which the AFL has been known to take the "these guys are bad, but they are the best option in light of..." stance, out of which comes a closed forum with the whole CTV sponsored (and presumably funded) by the AFL where Chavez and the strike are discussed. Next day there is a coup attempt. I don't think it is a conspiracy theory, and less so do I think it is a right wing one.

And from what I've heard other unions have also been reasonably corrupt in the Venezuelan past, whether they are pro or anti-Chavez right now. That comes with the field, I'd guess.

Unions, governments... it does come with the field: post-colonial latin america. The other major union federation has had corruption problems, but at least they elect their leaders.

[chequita guevara]

Originally posted by Adam Smith
Gepap:
If you dislike the Chicago Boys' economic policies since Allende, can you name any other South American country which would not trade its economic position for Chile's export driven growth?

Chile's recovery didn't begin until after Pinochet sent the Chicago Boy's packing and began undoing everything they had told him to do. Greg Palast is one of the actual Chicago boys. He studied under Friedman at U of C in the early 70s (granted, at the behest of Communist union leader Frank Rosen). Tinker Bell Pinochet and the Fairy Tale Miracle of Chile Of course, I'm sure Fez will refute this simply by saying it's all lies and commie propaganda.

El Leon, the AIFLD doesn't exist anymore, not under any name. That was the office that Sweeney and company shut down when they came into office. Many of the internationals have also been reformed, and no longer do the government's bidding.

The Amerian trade union movement shifted significantly to the left during the 90s, after seeing what all it's close cooperation with management and the government had gotten it. While they certainly aren't healthy yet, they are a long way from the corrupt, anti-worker organizations of the past. Their biggest problem is that they are still too timid.