Venezuelan opposition march

[GePap]

The opposition (and Fez) seem to ignore a little thing called constitutionality. What Latin America needs, above all else, is respect for the constitution of the state, so that regimes come and go with regularity and peace. The constituion states that there can be a referendum, in 8 months. What the opposition should be doing is getting ready for that campaign, not doing what it is doing now.

Chavez was elected, and he was elected for a reason: the previous Venezuelan goverments had failed the people badly. I don't doubt Chavez currently unpopular, but SO WHAT? low approval does not allow one to try to overthrow the state. Does anyone think (well, besides Fez) that the opposition, given the decades of pre-Chavez failure would actually fix the problems of the state? If the opposition wins now: then when it comes to power, and fails as well, does that mean the Chavistas can come an try to overthrow that government?

What Latin America needs is a stance for Constitutionalism. As someone said, in 1946 Gaitan was murdered in Colombia. 46 years and over 100,000 lives later, the political issues of Colombia has not been resolved. I hope the Venezuelan oposition gets a clue.

[Giancarlo]

The Venezuelan opposition wants the dictator out! Venezuela won't survive antoher eight months. So you get a damn clue.

[El León]

Originally posted by Fez

Three million? Source.

Eyewitnesses. There is also a nice video called "the battle for Chile" with nice images of the demonstration. Count the people and tell me. Oops. You're right. They were 2,992,123 - but the exact number is irrelevant.

Also may I bring up a fact, Chile is much better off today than it was with that soviet pig dog.

Indeed. What happened to intelligence? Manners? Education?

Where did you get this from? I happened to visit Chile on several dozen occasions. And I don't see any of this.

What, do you think they show off for foreigners? I got if from Chileans, of course. It even made the news because the supermarkets complained and you are quite welcome to look for it.

You are pathetic and misstating my beliefs. If you really want something done, let my country run Latin America again.

Now, now, calling me pathetic is quite ad hominem, don't you think? And I thought I read something about personal insults. The US sTILL runs the show, be reassured.

You have failed in providing me anything to work with.

Nevertheless you managed to do quite alot with it. But you missed the main point - what you are advocating is not conservatism or capitalism, for that matter.

Mind I ask, do you work for the PRI?

Um, let me think... Insults again? Are we out of arguments again? Just ask, I think I help you do a much better job of defending capitalism, US policy in Latin America, conservatism.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by El Leon


Eyewitnesses. There is also a nice video called "the battle for Chile" with nice images of the demonstration. Count the people and tell me. Oops. You're right. They were 2,992,123 - but the exact number is irrelevant.

Allende is dead I hate to break it to you. And the current economic system is highly favorable amongst the Chilean population.

Indeed. What happened to intelligence? Manners? Education?

Chile today is much better off than it was with the Soviet-influenced Allende regime.

What, do you think they show off for foreigners? I got if from Chileans, of course. It even made the news because the supermarkets complained and you are quite welcome to look for it.

Where? Stop speaking without sources. By the way I go to Chile regularly so I know what the situation is like. Chile is in really good shape. Hopefully people like you won't screw it up.

Now, now, calling me pathetic is quite ad hominem, don't you think? And I thought I read something about personal insults. The US sTILL runs the show, be reassured.

You are a DL, I never seen you around here before. DL alert. Whose is it this time?

Nevertheless you managed to do quite alot with it. But you missed the main point - what you are advocating is not conservatism or capitalism, for that matter.

Yes it is. It is capitalism.

Um, let me think... Insults again? Are we out of arguments again? Just ask, I think I help you do a much better job of defending capitalism, US policy in Latin America, conservatism.

You do not have any idea how to defend yourself. No wonder... can you actually challange me in any way while I defend the Chilean model you so much hate? Do you hate wealth? If you really hate wealth, go live in a cave. The problem with other Latin American countries is wealth is not generated. The governments are corrupt and not transparent. The Chilean Government is the only transparent government in Latin America.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Fez
The Venezuelan opposition wants the dictator out! Venezuela won't survive antoher eight months. So you get a damn clue.

Fez: you antics in other threads have shown what an idiot you are, nor do you know what a dictator is (having never lived under one, no matter how weak).

Chavez was elected by the people of Venezuela. If the people of Venezuela want him out, then await the next election, as mandated by the constitution of the country. If and when the next egal elections come, and Chavez losses, and refuses to step dwn: that it the time at which he has become a dictator. At any point before that, no matter how unpopular, he remains the democratically elected leader of the state.

[El León]

Originally posted by Fez
Chile today is much better off than it was with the Soviet-influenced Allende regime.

Scientific method - we do not know the consequences unless the act happened. Allende's government, scientifically speaking, may have ended well. But we would not know that, now would we.

You are a DL, I never seen you around here before. DL alert. Whose is it this time?

Mira, no te has dado cuenta que tú eres el único otro posteador de Apolyton? Yo no soy un DL, soy 100,000

Yes it is. It is capitalism.

Not Adam Smith's, not the one promoted in the French Revolution... You are decidedly protectionist, not free market. I guess you are conservative, after all.

You do not have any idea how to defend yourself. No wonder... can you actually challange me in any way while I defend the Chilean model you so much hate? Do you hate wealth? If you really hate wealth, go live in a cave. The problem with other Latin American countries is wealth is not generated. The governments are corrupt and not transparent. The Chilean Government is the only transparent government in Latin America.

Can I get one little source? Just a tiny one? Have I attacked the Chilean model? Do you read the posts or just react to them? All I said is that the method is wrong.
Welath has been generated in Mexico, look at the Forbes list. And Brazil. And transparency would be nice in the US also, I agree.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by GePap


Fez: you antics in other threads have shown what an idiot you are, nor do you know what a dictator is (having never lived under one, no matter how weak).

Yes I have. I have lived under one. In Ecuador. A military junta. Not to mention I almost got hit by tear gas and rubber bullets when I was trying to get to a supermarket. I got caught between two crowds, one of the crowds rioters and the other soldiers and police officers. So tell me something I don't know pinhead.

Chavez was elected by the people of Venezuela. If the people of Venezuela want him out, then await the next election, as mandated by the constitution of the country. If and when the next egal elections come, and Chavez losses, and refuses to step dwn: that it the time at which he has become a dictator. At any point before that, no matter how unpopular, he remains the democratically elected leader of the state.

Chavez needs to call early elections.

Also that is not how the way things are runned in Latin America. Here, if they do not like the guy in power they throw him out. That simple. The constitution is far to weak as it probably has been modified by the president himself to suit his own needs.

Sorry your entire argument collapsed on itself.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by El Leon
Scientific method - we do not know the consequences unless the act happened. Allende's government, scientifically speaking, may have ended well. But we would not know that, now would we.

Allende's government would of never ended well as it overbloated the government.

Mira, no te has dado cuenta que tú eres el único otro posteador de Apolyton? Yo no soy un DL, soy 100,000

DL, DL, DL, DL, DL, DL, DL, DL!

Not Adam Smith's, not the one promoted in the French Revolution... You are decidedly protectionist, not free market. I guess you are conservative, after all.

I am pro-free market, whereas you are a Stalinist.

Can I get one little source? Just a tiny one? Have I attacked the Chilean model? Do you read the posts or just react to them? All I said is that the method is wrong.

The Chilean Model is correct.

Welath has been generated in Mexico, look at the Forbes list.

Yup, and transferred to Swiss Bank accounts. Don't get me wrong but I hate corruption. If you really want to build up infrastructure and with that increase incomes embrace the Chilean model.

And Brazil. And transparency would be nice in the US also, I agree.

Transparency is readily apparent in the US.

In Brazil, transparency is readily needed.

In Mexico, bloated government is a major problem. As goes for Argentina. Did you know where the average person makes $200-$400 (pesos), a senator makes over $200,000 (pesos)?

[monkspider]

Fez, all I hear from you is illogical rightist hot air.
Therefore, all of your assertions are incorrect.

[Giancarlo]

Monkspider, there is still hope for you to abandon your illogical communist beliefs that clearly violate the will of the people.

[monkspider]

There is no hope for your weak belief structure, rightist.

[Giancarlo]

There is no hope for your stupidity, commie.

[GePap]

Originally posted by Fez


Yes I have. I have lived under one. In Ecuador. A military junta. Not to mention I almost got hit by tear gas and rubber bullets when I was trying to get to a supermarket. I got caught between two crowds, one of the crowds rioters and the other soldiers and police officers. So tell me something I don't know pinhead.

A military junta in Ecuador in the last 18 years.... well, next time don't go out to shop during a time of crisis: it good advice.

Chavez needs to call early elections.

Also that is not how the way things are runned in Latin America. Here, if they do not like the guy in power they throw him out. That simple. The constitution is far to weak as it probably has been modified by the president himself to suit his own needs.

Sorry your entire argument collapsed on itself.

Ohh Fez....

If constitutions in Latin America are weak, it is because of the very thing you are demanding: until people start listening to the consituion, it will remain weak. And yes, Chavez did change the constituion, within constitutional bounds: which is allowed, just look at the constitution of any state, none are set in stone. So no, my argument does not fall apart. It remain nice and solid: The solution to Latin America's political instability ois solid constitutionalism, and the Venezuelan opposition is currently part of the problem. If Chavez is so unpopular, then in august, he would surely loose. BUt there is nothing in the constituion that allows for elections earlier than that.

[monkspider]

Wrongo, you are a rightist, therefore by definition your beliefs are illogical.

[Giancarlo]

Originally posted by GePap


A military junta in Ecuador in the last 18 years.... well, next time don't go out to shop during a time of crisis: it good advice.

So that tells you I have seen Latin American politics at its best. And almost got shot in the process.

If constitutions in Latin America are weak, it is because of the very thing you are demanding: until people start listening to the consituion, it will remain weak.

Actually no. It is because of the terrible corruption in the governments, and the governments usual bypassing of the constitution that is so readily apparent in Latin America.

So no, my argument does not fall apart. It remain nice and solid:

No, it fell apart. Yes it is solid, as mud.

The solution to Latin America's political instability ois solid constitutionalism, and the Venezuelan opposition is currently part of the problem.

No... the solution to Latin America's political instability is a complete economic turn around.

If Chavez is so unpopular, then in august, he would surely loose. BUt there is nothing in the constituion that allows for elections earlier than that.

He can call for early elections to prevent the crisis from being prolonged. At least businesses will start up again. If I were Chavez, I would call for early elections.