Nov 30th 1939 - A Date which will live in Infamy

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Serb
Some people here including David and Fez consider this a sign of historical ****iness of Russian military.

The Crimean War, The Russo-Japanese War, WWI, & the present day are signs of the historical ****iness of the Russian military machine. WWII was a high point for you.

[Lefty Scaevola]

Originally posted by Blisterz
Am I the only person that saw that? God, what a numskull.

No, you are just one of the few that bother to responed to "Mr X on your ignore list".

[Viking Berserk]

Umm... Don't forget you allied the F*****G Germans!

[David Floyd]

The Crimean War, The Russo-Japanese War, WWI, & the present day are signs of the historical ****iness of the Russian military machine. WWII was a high point for you.

Yes, WWII was a high point in the context of massive amounts of outside help and intervention

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by David Floyd
Yes, WWII was a high point in the context of massive amounts of outside help and intervention

The Soviets outproduced the Germans throughout the war.

[David Floyd]

The Soviets outproduced the Germans throughout the war.

Very true. But, a large amount of this production was made possible by US steel and various other resources.

Further, a lot of this production was able to be utilized because of things like US aviation fuel, locomotives, rail tracks, etc.

[DinoDoc]

I'm not questioning the importance of Lend-Lease. I'm just saying that the Russian military wasn't completely **** during WWII.

[David Floyd]

It certainly was in 1941 and, to a large degree, in 1942. Even as late as 1945 Germany was winning tactical victories against the Red Army, and I'd argue that if the US and Britain hadn't been present in force in Italy and France, the Red Army would be seen as much worse during World War 2.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

WW2 was won because the allies had more stuff that the axis. The Americans pushed forward because the Germans ran out of 88 shells before the americans ran out of shermans. THe russians moved forward because tthe germans ran out of ammo before the russians ran outta men.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

BTW, if any of you have any good books about the winter war, could you post the title, author because I'm doing a 1500 word essay on the cause and effects of the winter war.

[Boris Godunov]

The Germans didn't run out of ammo, Lawrence. They had plenty of it. What they ran out of was gas. Thus the ammo remained stockpiled in the munitions factories with no way for them to get it to the front.

This was made possible by American and British airstrikes which devasted their refining capabilities. That, moreso than any other single factor, is what won the war.

[Nubclear]

Originally posted by Odin


Finno-Russian War II? Go Finns!

Argh, it is time to settle this once and for all....

[Pekka]

Tassadar, That's just evil ! .

Lawrence of Arabia, My history books from school . Hmm, I don't know any really good books, but I've heard that 'Frozen Hell' should be ok.. from Trotter or what was the authors name. You can check it out from Amazon.com , they have every book anyway, if you get lucky you can get some reviews too. BUt I won't recommend it, since I haven't read it.

[Lawrence of Arabia]

Boris, I have this source where this 88 cm gun commander is talking to his captors in prison. He was in africa defending a pass. Everytime an american tank came by, he destroyed it. However, he ran outta shells before the americans ran outta tanks. If you want, I'll go look for the source.
yes its true that the germans ran out of gas too (the battle of the bulge was won because peiper couldnt reach the US fuel dump), and they faced shortages everywhere.

[Boris Godunov]

Originally posted by Lawrence of Arabia
Boris, I have this source where this 88 cm gun commander is talking to his captors in prison. He was in africa defending a pass. Everytime an american tank came by, he destroyed it. However, he ran outta shells before the americans ran outta tanks. If you want, I'll go look for the source.
yes its true that the germans ran out of gas too (the battle of the bulge was won because peiper couldnt reach the US fuel dump), and they faced shortages everywhere.

Right, and they had no ammo, because they had no gas. When the allies reached the German munitions plants, they were loaded with ammo. However, entire groups of tanks had to be abandoned because they had no gas. That was the ultimate cause of the ammo shortage on the front--no gas.