Rugby - One game to rule them all

[finbar]

Originally posted by Andydog
Guys, think about what you're saying here. Nobody in their right mind is stupid enough to adopt such tactics, for precisely those reasons. Least of all a Springbok captain. In fact, this is a quote from Straeuli himself:

Straeuli is the coach. Corne Krige - the flanker - is the skipper.

So I don't know where you heard that he has 'no problem with their approach to the England game', perhaps you took this out of context?

The quote was from the coach. It was from an interview after the England game where he claimed England also played dirty rugby. Which is crap. I watched the game. I'll see if I can find the quote.

Sorry chaps but you haven't convinced me. I think that the boks have a tendency to get very frustrated when they are loosing to a superior side, and there is nobody there to cool the team down.

As I said, the skipper - Krige, an experienced player - is one of the worst offenders. Sorry, Andydog, I've seen them do it too often now. They were a try down against England early in the game - and the England try was against the run of play - when the Boks started it with the late smash of Wilkinson that earned the red card. And the red card came as a result of the ref's earlier constant warnings to the Boks about their play.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Journeyman
This is some discussion thread, you're still going over the Boks case! No stone unturned, eh?

If there's a stone to turn over - or even pick up and hurl at each other - we'll find it.

Finbar and Havak, you both live in Australia don't you?

*Havak's bile rises somewhat*

Journeyman - Havak is a born and bred and resident Leicester man.

[finbar]

Results of interest to the thread:

Gloucester 25 -d- London Irish 20

Leicester Tigers 12 lost to Northampton Saints 25*

*Mmmmmm. Leicester's first home loss since 1997.

And just to complete a perfect weekend for me:

Toulouse 31 -d- Narbonne 16



Edit. Good grief. Former Wallaby Tim Horan was selected at fly-half for Saracens but had to pull out because of injury. I thought Timmy had retired.

[Havak]

Tim is still on the books at Sarries but he has been plagued by injuries to say the least.

So the local rivals lowered our colours. It had to come but that was almost the worst team possible to do it - they will remember that for a long time. Fair play though they were the better side on the day - no complaints.

What worries me more is we were very poor. Something has gone badly wrong and it is 'acid test' time for the coach.

We shall see if he is up to it.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
So the local rivals lowered our colours. It had to come but that was almost the worst team possible to do it -

Dunno about that. Imagine if the Tractor Boys had done it.

Although you did qualify your statement with "almost".

What worries me more is we were very poor. Something has gone badly wrong and it is 'acid test' time for the coach.

We shall see if he is up to it.

I know I went throught a list of possibilities once before, but maybe they've all worked you out now. Just as, say, everyone of any note has worked out the Wallabies. Time for a re-think.

[Andydog]

Straeuli is the coach. Corne Krige - the flanker - is the skipper.

whoops, I was actually aware of that, I meant to say 'springbok coach' and then later wrote Straeuli instead of Krige. I had it right the first time before it all crashed on me - I rushed through it the second and got things slightly mixed up.

Anyway, I do see where you are coming from. I also see how it looks. But I still can't bring myself to accept that SA are defying all logic and are teaching their team to get penalised.

On a different note, are any of us interested the Sevens? Will there be discussion about it in this thread?

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak


If I recall there were several ex ABs in their ranks back then which probably explains how they managed a couple of tries? Those were the days when representing seven or eight countries was still acceptable. Didn’t one of the Bichops end up with Japan after already playing Samoa and NZ?

Can't remember who it was, but I remember seeing a couple of white guys in the Japanese team.

That Romanian side was almost the same team that Scotland could not put away the week before they did put away the Boks. Am I arguing the Boks are now on a par with Romania? Would I? For a start Romania tackle according to the laws of the game.

I wouldn't put the Boks on par with Romania, as tempting as it is to do so. I reckon they are probably over their worst patch, and will improve in next year's Tri-nations. I can't see them beating your lot in the RWC though...

I can see how it came over. But it was only ever intended as a glib comment to draw an exchange and it worked on that basis.

Yes, it worked pretty well. My kiwi patriotism kicked in fairly quickly...

Strangely the only games I can remember are those two you referenced – funny that?

Thought so.

Oh and the final but lets gloss over that right?

There was a final?

Harder than you will ever know.

Brave lad.

You are absolutely right. The positive thing I took out of it is that normally after choking that would have been it. Previous England sides would have collapsed after going 15 points down. This one dug back in. I have to say it made me immensely proud of the boys. A lot of it is down to the character of the captain of course (Finbar groans loudly).

I have to agree. They also showed a lot of character when they hung on to beat NZ. Jonno must be very inspirational.

After all the stats since RWC 99 show that the ABs actually do very badly in Australia don’t they Caligastia? When was the last win there again?

Um....what? Sorry, you'll have to speak up.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by finbar
Tamerlin and LDiCesares would be most welcome here, I'm sure they know that. As would you too have been welcome if I'd realised you were the armchair socialist that you are. In fact, you should get your backside down here for the RWC. And bring Mrs Havak. In further fact, I've just come home from a splendid dinner out with MOBIUS and MS MOBIUS.

My wife and I also met them when they were in NYC. How are they doing?

[finbar]

Originally posted by Andydog
Anyway, I do see where you are coming from. I also see how it looks. But I still can't bring myself to accept that SA are defying all logic and are teaching their team to get penalised.

I think they're encouraged to go out and play the rough stuff probably on the basis that it will unsettle the oppo. Whether it does or not, it's the Boks who end up suffering via the penalty count and/or cards. It does defy logic, it's suicidal, but they keep doing it.

On a different note, are any of us interested the Sevens? Will there be discussion about it in this thread?

The trouble is that, here anyway, the 7s comps get next to no coverage so it's very hard to know what goes on in order to discuss it.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Caligastia


My wife and I also met them when they were in NYC. How are they doing?

They're both exceedingly well. They've been here for dinner a couple of times, we've been to their place for dinner once, and we took them out last Thursday night as a sort of farewell. They're now spending about 3 weeks travelling around NSW and Victoria before they return to Sydney and head home.

[Havak]

Although you did qualify your statement with "almost".

I’m glad that you spotted the qualifier.

Time for a re-think.

Definitely. Time to kick Austin out of the ten shirt too. And sadly Kafer had a very poor game. I have a sneaking feeling he might bear the brunt of the reaction to this as it’s behind the scrum that problems are appearing and that is his responsibility these days.
Would you believe we actually had the vast majority of possession again Saturday? The forwards must be hopping mad.

I can't see them beating your lot in the RWC though...

Well it’s a strange game but this would require a massive turnaround for them.

Yes, it worked pretty well. My kiwi patriotism kicked in fairly quickly...

Nothing wrong with that.

There was a final?

Apparently.

Jonno must be very inspirational.

I am very surprised you didn’t get a red card from Finbar for this.

Um....what? Sorry, you'll have to speak up.

I think it is very important for your RWC campaign that you skittle them over in the early tri-nations to break that duck?

It does defy logic, it's suicidal, but they keep doing it.

The coach is in denial. He doesn’t see the problem therefore he is not the man who can correct it for them. There immediate future will contain much red I think.

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak
Well it’s a strange game but this would require a massive turnaround for them.

Surely the only way is up for them from here...

I think it is very important for your RWC campaign that you skittle them over in the early tri-nations to break that duck?

Most of the victories Australia have had over us have been very close. I reckon that NZ is sufficiently ahead of Australia to be able to beat them at home more often now.
Winning the Bledisloe Cup would be a huge boost to our RWC campaign.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
And sadly Kafer had a very poor game.

He must be getting to a decent age now, I'd've thought.

I have a sneaking feeling he might bear the brunt of the reaction to this as it’s behind the scrum that problems are appearing and that is his responsibility these days.

What, specifically, are the problems? Skills? Personpower? Organisation?

I am very surprised you didn’t get a red card from Finbar for this.

I have a J**** filter installed. A bit like a spam filter in an email system. Whatever reference he made to J**** was automatically transferred to the Trash Folder before it could make its way onto my screen.

The coach is in denial. He doesn’t see the problem therefore he is not the man who can correct it for them. There immediate future will contain much red I think.

As are the Bok authorities - from what they've said publicly - in denial. I wouldn't be surprised, though, if some behind-the-scenes negotiations started. Someone over there, at some stage, must realise that the myriad penalties and cards make it just about impossible for them to win a match. So what's the point of playing?

Hey Havak. I notice that the Scotland coach is stepping down to take an admin position. They're looking for a new coach. You quite like the Scots - or dislike them less than you dislike the Boyos - so that probably qualifies you to coach them. Feel like a couple of years in Aberdeen?

[finbar]

Originally posted by Caligastia
Most of the victories Australia have had over us have been very close. I reckon that NZ is sufficiently ahead of Australia to be able to beat them at home more often now.
Winning the Bledisloe Cup would be a huge boost to our RWC campaign.

You're the best team going around at the moment. It's likely you still will be next season. The blooding of those young players on that NH tour was a masterstroke.

[Havak]

He must be getting to a decent age now, I'd've thought.

31 I think? Much around the same age as Kronfeld is now.

What, specifically, are the problems? Skills? Personpower? Organisation?

All of the above. The organisation was awful the last two games. Skills don’t seem as sharp as they were for some individuals. The loss of 8 players from the squad for six weeks due to internationals seems to have been catastrophic. The stand ins played superbly but when the ‘stars’ returned it seems the game plan didn’t adjust smoothly to let them back in – almost like there were two teams on the field if that makes sense.

Maybe it was an error to let so many walk straight back in?

And even though I know Healey only played Fly because Vesty got a knock the weekend before let me say again that Healey is not a natural Fly half – if they persist in playing him there we will continue to have troubles.

I have a J**** filter installed

I’m thinking of having a John Howard filter installed myself.

Forgive me for saying it is typically Australian to give a sarcastic gift over a century ago and now demand it back so you can laugh even more.

I find myself in full agreement with the Yorkshire fan on BBC radio yesterday morning – “Never give them back. Because it will bug the hell out of the smug Aussie ****”.

Such passion for such a minority sport.

So what's the point of playing?

I hadn’t noticed they were? You make a good point though.

I did love the Planet Rugby verdict from Bok fans. Most saw it as it was but the odd one was a tiny bit blinkered. Particularly the chap who thought your filter target went on an 80 minute rampage. He even thought that Krige did not deserve the polite warning he got just before Captain Bok declined the warning with an elbow.

Feel like a couple of years in Aberdeen?

I love the Scots. But basing my decision purely on weather concerns I have to say “No thanks”.
Besides I’m too Scottish to coach them really. I like Whisky you see.

You're the best team going around at the moment. It's likely you still will be next season. The blooding of those young players on that NH tour was a masterstroke.

But bringing a little more realistic perspective to it the “young players” just about coped in the forwards (no more than that –France and Wales exposed problems there after a decent showing against us) and it was your experienced backs kept you in the big game at HQ. Please remember that Wales held you close for 70 minutes and I can assure you if you were not worried by that then you should be. Ireland have destroyed Wales twice in the last few years and England don’t sweat them at all any more.

Were the RWC in the NH I would not hesitate to pick England and France (the only team whose forwards have gained the accedence over us this year). As it’s in the SH I concede NZ have to be favourite. But Australia will win it against all form books and all the odds. Mark my words. No doubt we will have Howard saying how you should keep the Webb Ellis trophy after the third win?