Rugby - One game to rule them all

[Caligastia]

Originally posted by Havak
I mean lets face it NZ recently lost a game, drew a game and won a meaningless fixture with Wales and went homing claiming to be the worlds best so I don’t think it is England who have the biggest problem with getting things in perspective eh?

But we are always the world's best, so what's new...?

In all seriousness Caligastia I’m sure you realise that another ref on another day (and basically not a weak SH type like both games had) and you would have badly lost both the English and French games - superb individual efforts from Howlett and a Wilkinson slip poach from Blair aside. I do wish your coaches would teach you players about staying behind the offside line on occasion. Then again if they did you wouldn't be quite so much the mighty All Blacks probably.

So what you are saying is that if the refs had been different, and we hadn't scored so many tries, you would have won by more? Uhhh...ok, I'll give you that one.

...and what is this mythical offside line you keep referring to?

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by Caligastia
But we are always the world's best, so what's new...?

Perhaps, but the current World Champion is Australia.

The AB have always been the favorites but we are doing our best to put an end to this.

So what you are saying is that if the refs had been different, and we hadn't scored so many tries, you would have won?

Though with another referee France would have certainly scored a penalty try, the French players have not used the good tactic and have not been able to adapt themselves against opponents that were nonetheless largely dominated.

...and what is this mythical offside line you keep referring to?

The offside concept is already disappearing from the collective consciousness of the SH people.

[Tamerlin]

Some H-Cup results :

Montferrand was beaten yesterday by the Leinster and Bourgoin has lost its game against Glasgow.

At the end of the first half time, Biarritz at home in a sunny Aguilerra Stadium is leading 15-3 against the Ulster Province.

[Tamerlin]

Biarritz 25 - Ulster 20

Though it is a victory the end result is not as good as it seems. The first place of the pool (only the first is qualified) will certainly be decided by the goal average and/or the number of tries. At the end of this game, the Biarritz Olympique is only leading by one point and one try. Will this be enough ?

The BO has even been very lucky as an invalid try has been scored in their favor, the referees were far from the action and decided a bit quickly in my own opinion.

13' before the end of the game the BO was leading by 12 points, a clever coaching and the famous Irish fighting spirit allowed the Ulster to come back while the "Biarrots" relaxed themselves in the same time.


Some other (partial) results :

The Union Sportive des Arlequins de Perpignan (USAP) has won at home against Gloucester, the AS Béziers-Héraut playing away has been laminated by the Leicester Tigers...

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin
The Union Sportive des Arlequins de Perpignan (USAP) has won at home against Gloucester, the AS Béziers-Héraut playing away has been laminated by the Leicester Tigers...

Damn Tractor Boys!

OTOH, it was an Australian - Manny Edmonds - who sank them!

[finbar]

Originally posted by Havak
We didn’t squeak home as far as I am concerned – two of their tries were results of our errors in attack and that can happen to the best of sides.

The name Luger springs to mind. A scoreline is a scoreline, you've argued before, I believe, with the means by which the scoreline has been achieved absolutely irrelevant.

Plus I think the point you are missing here is that they play us so rarely these days that given wins against them have always been such a rare thing we have to enjoy it whilst we can.

That dang self-esteem problem rears its head again!

Also because I am English I think you need to understand I have been exceptionally polite about them. Yes certain things impressed me – Howlett simply blew me away for example but he is first string for sure, but on the whole I saw a team whose forwards came off clearly second best, who were shown far too much respect by our lads and who were in the final analysis very lucky to end so close to us.

... Dan Luger ... Dan Luger ...

I honestly think a referee who policed the game line more effectively would have seen them totally out of the game as their entire game is built on infringement – the classic “what you can get away with”.

I'm bored shooting you down with your own words, so this time I'll settle for - horsesh*t! Classic revisionism.

It’s really not cricket for any Kiwi to bleat about the tour being a second string side by the way – don’t send men in the jersey unless you are happy for them the represent you – that’s as rude as we were to Australia in 1998 if you do so. Talk instead about how it was a “shame we couldn’t see” Jack or McCaw rather than say “with them we would have beaten you” because frankly – you simply don’t know that.

Sorry for treading on your patch, Caligastia, but I can't resist. Who has claimed "with them we would have beaten you"? No one in this forum as far as I can recall. You're quite right, it's hypothetical and therefore meaningless. If it's the Planet Rugby nongs who are offending you, take it up with them. In fact, let me know when, and I'll join you.

Would Ireland then have buried the Wallabies were Keith Wood fit?

What difference would Ben Tune, Matt Rogers, et al, have made to any of the matches? Who knows? If one's auntie had a beard, she'd be one's uncle.

I trust you realise my advise there is generally aimed at kiwis Finbar - and is not another example of my homogenising antipodeans.

Fear not, I'm happy to shoot down revisionism and irrelevance at any opportunity!

I saw the same games highlights and read it differently. They looked like England to me – backs and forwards in separate game plans. Nowhere near as good as against us.

I saw the whole game. They certainly weren't as good as they were against you. They coughed up so much ball it wasn't funny. The Welsh defended like buggery but the dam finally broke.

[finbar]

Originally posted by finbar


Damn Tractor Boys!

OTOH, it was an Australian - Manny Edmonds - who sank them!

Quoting myself again? So sue me!

By chance, tonight, FoxSports showed a replay of last week's Tractor Boys -v- Perpignan match at Kingsholm, won by the TBs. It's the first time I've ever seen the TBs play, and my first look at my home ground. I can't say I'd like to be an oppo supporter trapped in The Shed. But I really love the character of those sorts of English grounds - they're intimate, you're right on top of the action, and everyone's jammed in together. Makes for great atmosphere.

That aside, it was a very scrappy game with the TBs looking more clumsy than I thought they were with a lot of botched set pieces. The Welsh ref - Mr Williams - seemed to have trouble sorting out the front rows (Phil Vickery was left bemused more than once) and the Perpignan forwards did some damage. Perpignan looked dangerous more than a couple of times with some backline charges, and the TBs' defence looked a bit soft and disorganised. They let Perpignan make enormous ground running the ball back from the kickoffs.

Manny Edmonds was Perpignan's best - a polished fly half performance in a scrappy game. He's not yet quite in synch with his teammates, though, because a lot of his deft flicks back inside - staple diet stuff when he was playing here - were missed by his teammates. OTOH, Ludovic Mercier was the TBs' best by a mile too (while Henry Paul didn't contribute a great deal). Frankly, based on what I saw, I'm not surprised they lost away to Perpignan last night. Perpignan only had to be more consistent than they were last week in order to be truly dangerous at home.

I've never seen Maurice Garvey before, Havak, but he's certainly got some potential for a 19 year old! He's like a turbo-charged cannon ball!

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by finbar
If one's auntie had a beard, she'd be one's uncle.

We have the same popular sentence in France though the beard is actually replaced by b***s.

[Tamerlin]

Originally posted by finbar
I really love the character of those sorts of English grounds - they're intimate, you're right on top of the action, and everyone's jammed in together. Makes for great atmosphere.

Here we call these stadiums : "stades à l'anglaise" and they are very appreciated. The public being closed to the field, the atmosphere is often very hot.

...and the Perpignan forwards did some damage.

This is the main strong point of the USAP.

Ludovic Mercier was the TBs' best by a mile too (while Henry Paul didn't contribute a great deal).

His carreer in England is exemplary, it's a pity such a player is not playing in France when we lack quality halves.

Perpignan only had to be more consistent than they were last week in order to be truly dangerous at home.

Consistency seems to be the main problem of the USAP this year, some great play but occasionally only. If they can keep their players for several years they will gradually become more dangerous.

[Tamerlin]

Petit match entre amis

Stade Toulousain 50 - Edinburgh 17

A little game between friends, the scottish players have been rapidly distanced by the Stade Toulousain's light cavalry (Vincent Clerc, Xavier Garbajosa, Yannick Jauzion and Clément Poitrenaud) launched by an inspired Yann Delaigue (half fly) and a quick Frédéric Michalack (half scrum). The Scotts never surrendered but never managed to come back.

A great "hurrah!" for the Scottish supporters...

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin


We have the same popular sentence in France though the beard is actually replaced by b***s.

You sometimes get that version in English, too, but the "beard" version is much more common.

[finbar]

Originally posted by Tamerlin


Here we call these stadiums : "stades à l'anglaise" and they are very appreciated. The public being closed to the field, the atmosphere is often very hot.

They're sort of similar to the club grounds here, only ours are much less developed because of the much smaller crowds and lack of money. Often we will have a small-ish grandstand and that's about it. A lot of spectators park their cars around the fence and watch the game from their cars.

This is the main strong point of the USAP.

They looked very strong and quite mobile. The locks made some very strong runs straight through some ordinary Gloucester defence, and their pack shoved the Gloucester around quite a few times.

His carreer in England is exemplary, it's a pity such a player is not playing in France when we lack quality halves.

Where would he rank in France? Is he a national team player?

Consistency seems to be the main problem of the USAP this year, some great play but occasionally only. If they can keep their players for several years they will gradually become more dangerous.

I hope FoxSports show the return Gloucester-Perpignan match next week. I'd really like to see what happened. From the reports I've read, Gloucester really only made an impression on the scoreboard very late in the game. Manny Edmonds, when his mind is on the job, can be a fly half of real quality. His problem here was that he didn't ever really produce the goods when given the opportunity. For example, he starred for Australia A against the French this season, but, on other occasions, hardly featured. It might be that the responsibility he will carry at Perpignan will bring out the best in him. If it does, and if his teammates can get used to his creative style, they will be a dangerous team in attack.

[mandarin]

OK for good reason i c no South African has posted on this thread....or im assuming

I saw all the matches and as a bok supporter but an avid rugby fan as well i have to say after all the hype and performance and emotions and victory and decimation

1. Northern hemisphere rugby has never been so strong. England is certainly a serious contender for the world cup!
2. All credit to England,Scotland( yip up their kilts! ) and Ireland and the cookadoodles (vive le France ) for their performances they certainly deserved the win on the day.BTW last sentence said tongue in cheek by a sore loser LOL
3. In defense of SA rugby.....the current manager Rudolph Strauli is a typical moronic dutchmen who still believes in the old style play and cant decide from match to match on who to pick and who to leave in!
We have some brilliant players that were injured/left out i.e Mark Andrews albeit hes getting on a bit.
Im not making excuses but when half the bok team have left SA and are playing overseas...need i explain...and Straulis managing skills to boot....kinda wraps up what the bok team take to the field. Yes in the end no one will remember the ifs and buts...and the controversial decisions!

Still a while to the next world cup...perhaps things may change. DOnt underestimate SA...u do so at your peril....

On another note....the level of match violence and referreing is a rather more worrying factor. TV replays often clearly show the result but the ref swings the reverse!

[finbar]

Re: Petit match entre amis

Originally posted by Tamerlin
A great "hurrah!" for the Scottish supporters...

And lots of flasks of Scotch! I bet it was freezing cold!

[finbar]

Originally posted by mandarin
OK for good reason i c no South African has posted on this thread....or im assuming

Hi mandarin! Welcome. We've had the occasional Springbok poster but no one consistently. You're most welcome to represent the Bok cause. We take our rugby seriously here, but very little else. We've got a Pom, two Frenchmen, a couple of Kiwis, and a handful of Wallabies. And we have a lot of fun.

1. Northern hemisphere rugby has never been so strong. England is certainly a serious contender for the world cup!

Yep, the NH teams are playing very well. Don't underestimate France either.

3. In defense of SA rugby.....the current manager Rudolph Strauli is a typical moronic dutchmen who still believes in the old style play and cant decide from match to match on who to pick and who to leave in!

It has been agreed in this thread that Strauli is the Springboks' biggest problem. On top of his selection inconsistency, his condoning of the stupid play that results in so many penalties (and the red and yellow cards) is ridiculous. Or, if he doesn't condone it, his inability to discipline the team is pathetic.

We have some brilliant players that were injured/left out i.e Mark Andrews albeit hes getting on a bit.

I keep referring to this season's return Tri-Nations match at Ellis Park where the Boks actually concentrated on playing rugby rather than giving away stupid penalties. There is some skill in the Boks' outfit but it's being wasted. And the worst offender, IMHO, is the skipper, Krige.

Im not making excuses but when half the bok team have left SA and are playing overseas

That's your other big problem (on top of Strauli) - the lure of the big money in Europe. Australia faces the same problem.

Still a while to the next world cup...perhaps things may change. DOnt underestimate SA...u do so at your peril....

Find a coach who will develop and utilise the team's skills (rather than handicap the team with so many stupid penalties and variously coloured cards) and the Boks would be a real threat.