Say "NO!" to the Occupation!

[NeOmega]

Originally posted by Ned
From a lot of these post, I think some of the people of here have a fundamental problem with the concept of law.

You nailed it on the head. Especially when law is equated with morality. Just because everyone else thinks it's right doesn't make it so.

[Seeker]

It's called legal positivism, sometimes the people are 'ahead' of the law.

Sometimes they're like David, and way, way ahead of the law.

[David Floyd]

You mean his moral cowardice in lieing in an attempt not to be shipped to the occupied territories?

to Eli for that one...just wish he'd be consistent and actually condemn the occupation, though.

Sometimes they're like David, and way, way ahead of the law.

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by David Floyd
to Eli for that one...

That's not where the moral cowardice came in, DF. The moral cowardice is in his hawkish attitude while perpetrating a fraud in an attempt to avoid a posting he'd rather not serve in.

[David Floyd]

Oh, yes I'd certainly agree with you there.

[Boris Godunov]

So Ned, what do you think about Bush's avoiding going to Vietnam by having his powerful, rich daddy getting him into a cushy national guard position, which he then proceeded to go AWOL from?

[Az]

That's not where the moral cowardice came in, DF. The moral cowardice is in his hawkish attitude while perpetrating a fraud in an attempt to avoid a posting he'd rather not serve in.

That's not moral cowardice. It's regular cowardice.

[Guardian]

Originally posted by David Floyd

Regardless of what the law says, not showing up for a draft call is a victimless crime - actually, it's the opposite of that, because not only does NOT going not harm anyone, but if I showed up to fight I WOULD be harming someone. Therefore, I have a moral obligation to ignore any such call.

That's my view of it, anyway - not only is there no moral obligation for me to go fight, there is actually a moral obligation for me NOT to fight (except in self defense).

So, as long as it's just your neighbor's kids getting blown up, it's all OK and you feel morally obliged not to intervene in any way? Well, gee, in that case I'm glad you're not my neighbor!

As for me, while I respect a man who will stand up for what he believes in, politics would never prevent me from fighting against those who would blow up kids in our streets.

[Firelad]

Originally posted by Verto
Been quite some time since Firelad's posted here.

I'm afraid that I can't contribute much to the discussion, since it has moved to matters beyond my knowledge, such as US law and Constitution...
Besides, I got my questions answered

If you want more info about the people in Israel refusing the draft, go to http://www.shministim.org ... I am one of the people signed on that letter, or should soon be added to the list.

I have drawn a poster expressing my opinions on the matter and put copies around school... I have been subtly "threatened" by a person from the military boarding school who study with us that I should remove the posters - I refused of course. Later he "gave me permission" to post whatever I like. Hmm.
Many people look at me weirdly now... I mean of those who know about my decision - which is most of the people in school. Thankfully, it IS possible for most of them to ignore my political views when socialising. Whee

It's amazing how silly arguments can get. Besides having all the regular talk which is pretty easy to refute (esp. when you've done it a hundred times already) although refutations are never accepted, I got the most original one today. Someone told me that my brain has been damaged by surfing the web too much and that I have, as a consequence of that, lost touch with reality - that explaining my views.

~Mark

[Guardian]

Just a little elaboration on the subject of my previous post:

A government's policies can be wrong, of course, but blowing up kids - for any reason - is also wrong, and can never be justified. Hence, even though we might actually agree about the politics, if you blow up kids in my country, you're my enemy.

It's as simple as that, really.

[Firelad]

Originally posted by Guardian
As for me, while I respect a man who will stand up for what he believes in, politics would never prevent me from fighting against those who would blow up kids in our streets.

You are correct. The problem is, that the Israeli Army, which I refuse to serve, is not only itself guilty of blowing up people's kids, but also by its actions increasing the Palestinian motivation to kill Israelis. And motivation is all that counts - means will always be found...

[Guardian]

Originally posted by Firelad


You are correct. The problem is, that the Israeli Army, which I refuse to serve, is not only itself guilty of blowing up people's kids, but also by its actions increasing the Palestinian motivation to kill Israelis. And motivation is all that counts - means will always be found...

You are correct.
However, the actions of your army are dictated by your government's policies, are they not? So, your problem is with the government, not with the army as such. (Of course, it would be a better world if no armies existed in the first place, but that's not the world we live in...)

If some of those "motivated" Palestinians came to your neighborhood, will you still refuse to fight them?

-Or would you be willing to fight against such individuals while at the same time speaking up like you're doing right now?

[TheStinger]

Originally posted by Boris Godunov
So Ned, what do you think about Bush's avoiding going to Vietnam by having his powerful, rich daddy getting him into a cushy national guard position, which he then proceeded to go AWOL from?

thats different bush is a republican

[Firelad]

Guardian, I am under as big a threat of terror as the next person. I do live in a relatively safe city, but it really has nothing to do with my decision. I refuse to cooperate with the gov't and the army in that matter... That's it. I simply cannot do so while still staying myself, if you know what I mean.

[aaglo]

Okay, I'll say No to the occupation...

No!


So, what's different now? Any notable changes? ...
No? Well, I thought so.

I believe, that every action in ME-area leads to a dead end...