Say "NO!" to the Occupation!

[Ramo]

Yep. But if you're fighting the court decision, you'd have to be prosecuted.

[David Floyd]

True.

[Ned]

Carter pardoned all Vietnam era draft dodgers the day he was inaugurated. This was a reprehensible act.

I agree that if one does not agree with the position of one's government and would like to refuse to pay taxes or to serve in the military, one can give up one's citizenship and emigrate. I don't think it should be an option for a person to enjoy full benefits as citizens without also sharing its every responsibility.

This issue is all about the fundamentals of democratic government. The people vote to choose policy. If individuals citizens were able to individually choose alternative policies, or to only cooperate with those they like, we would have anarchy, not democracy.

I personally think that Vietnam was wrong. I got drafted. I did not flee the country. I did not lie to a draft board. I did not cheat.


I think that any American who did cheat, who did leave the country to avoid the draft, should be permanently stripped of all civil rights. Carter's pardon was reprehensible. It is a stain on our nation's honor. It permanently dishonors the fallen hero's of all America's wars.

I am glad that Carter is going down in history as our worst presidents ever.

[David Floyd]

That was one of Carter's BEST acts. It was courageous to stand up to the government and refuse to fight - in fact, I respect those people more than the people who knuckled under and showed up for the draft.

It dishonors the fallen heros of America's wars? Oh, so it dishonors people who decided it was OK to kill people when the government told them to?

Granted, these weren't bad people, and I don't mean to imply that. I just mean that those who allowed themselves to be drafted either a)believed in war or the draft, or b)did not have the courage to stand up to the government on that issue. I'm probably not going to give a **** if someone comes along and "dishonors" them.

Think of Carter's act as honoring those who were forced to fight against their will, and honoring those who had the courage to refuse.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Yeah, I think we should hang Eli by his feet and beat him for that violation!

[NeOmega]

Originally posted by Ned
Carter pardoned all Vietnam era draft dodgers the day he was inaugurated.

The more I hear about carter the more I like him. I still wish he hadn't given up the Panama Canal though.

[Dinner]

Ramo: If you wish to change something in a Democratic society then the correct procedure is to work with in electoral system to get it changed. If that doesn't work and you still feel you need redress then you go to the legal system to see if they'll make the changes you seek. The constitution spells out very clear avenues which persons can take to redress any grievences they have with the government.

If you feel that your cause is so right why don't you try the court system? Or is the reason you don't want to try the legal route because you secretly fear that your cause is wrong or that it is so weak that it will not with stand logic & direct scrutiny?

[Provost Harrison]

God, isn't America so free?

[Dinner]

God, aren't you presumptious?

[NeOmega]

Originally posted by Oerdin


Well, I feel so much better knowing that NeOmega knows so much more about the constitution then the Supreme Court of the United States! All you proved is how a little knowledge is enough to lead you into the wrong conclusion. The Supreme Court has been over and over this issue time and again and in every case it has concluded that the draft is in no way unconsitutional.

The amendments are worded simply so a layman as myself could have a valid argument if I so chose to risk my life. XIII is pretty clear. You sidestepped the question.....

BTW to show you what a nice guy I am I'm going to give you a chance to appalogize for your personal attack or I will report you to Ming.

[Verto]

Been quite some time since Firelad's posted here.

[Provost Harrison]

Well when we get it rammed down our necks that America is the home of freedom, yet the evidence suggests otherwise, what conclusions are we left to draw?

[DinoDoc]

Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui
Yeah, I think we should hang Eli by his feet and beat him for that violation!

You mean his moral cowardice in lieing in an attempt not to be shipped to the occupied territories?

Well when we get it rammed down our necks that America is the home of freedom, yet the evidence suggests otherwise, what conclusions are we left to draw?

What exactly are you talking about?

[tandeetaylor]

Originally posted by Oerdin
If you feel that your cause is so right why don't you try the court system? Or is the reason you don't want to try the legal route because you secretly fear that your cause is wrong or that it is so weak that it will not with stand logic & direct scrutiny?

Maybe the reason is the same as his reason to avoid the draft-- maybe he just wants to live his life. Getting yourself thrown in jail for everything you think is unjust is not noble, in my opinion, it's just stupid. When someone impedes your ability to live your life, that is the point to risk getting thrown in jail.

Your logic is faulty anyway. If all that has to happen in order for a right to be wronged is for it to be out in the open, all of the world's problems could be very easily solved.

[Ned]

From a lot of these post, I think some of the people of here have a fundamental problem with the concept of law.